norman Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 We had a renovated cottage for sale - bloke over the road sold his large house & was renovating the "granny flat" to sell. No water in the g/flat so could he rent ours (end of Oct, 2007) for couple of months max. He was "desperate", needed it by weekend etc. No formal agreement; but he's signed to agree £100/wk. ....... I know - join the queue to look at the idiot ! We've spent "for ever" looking at how to get him out & recover £1,800 + owed. Spoken to local solicitors, also to internet based "cheapies" & still confused as seems that we only get the story that "they" want you to pay for. It's like Morcambe & Wise - the facts are out there; but in the wrong order. Can we get him out then get rent arrears/costs from small claims court ? We can get section 8/21 notice served for approx £90 (from web or £200/300 from "proper" solicitor) -I think Mr.Slippery will ignore it and then £500+ to go to court ? Would appreciate some advice (I rang one solicitor, brother of a friend etc., to clarify earlier conversation & got a different "story" !) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPEL Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 If the tenancy started after April 07 and you took a deposit you won't be able to serve a section 21 if the deposit wasn't registered. If it was, then serve notice. Once served you then download N5B from the HMCS web site and start an accelerated repossession if he won't vacate. In meantime, try threats of DCs but failing that submit a small claim against him now for rent arrears. You're in a bit of a pickle without a written tenancy but an AST has been created. Alternatively, serve a S8 for rent arrears now and go through online re-possession procedure in a couple of weeks time if there are 2 months of arrears, if not vacated and paid up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Dewsberry Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 Slightly risky one this ...... If no ast and ..sounds like no payment ?....probably no payment of bills either ...Bills probably not even in his name ? Is there anything at all that "puts" him at the property in any way........? Not "generally" the sort of advice i would give to anyone, but if above all in place.....wait until he goes out then either move yourself or a "suitable" tenant in immediately (with an ast !!) Sometimes in this world you need to be a Txxx to catch a Txxx and this one sounds like a right Txxx ....Not my usual attitude or advice ...but you are not in a clever sit here ...........A "gentleman's agreement" with someone who is clearly anything but ........... Hard hat on ....go for it ........!!!!!!!!!!!! The Rodent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mortitia Posted July 16, 2008 Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 What you need to ask yourself is - how will he respond if you take Rodent's approach? Will he call the police or get a solicitor in - doubt it? Could the police be interested in him on another matter maybe? Police will not be interested unless breach of peace is likely to be caused and a solicitor will cost him dosh. Sounds like he hasn't got any - no rent, no water at other property but he has property so no legal aid. Put his gear outside -off your property while he is out, change locks and move in preferably with large dog. Not the ideal way but sometimes................... and don't be so silly again. Mortitia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPEL Posted July 16, 2008 Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 Bit of a minefield and have given this more thought. Another problem is that as there is no tenancy agreement, you won't have served a Section 48 notice therefore it is highly probable that a court would find that there is no rent due as no notice was served. An arrears claim is therefore invalid. Leave a S48 now at the property to close this gap prior to claiming arrears. Tread with caution just taking the property back. It's not uncommon for people like this several months down the line claiming illegal eviction. It's easy for them to do, sometimes just to claim compensation, but causes the owner a nightmare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norman Posted July 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 Thanks for your replies. He's paid rent by internet bank transfers and we had a council tax rebate in January from when he moved in. E-mailed council and they said couldn't give us any details (data protection); also stated that who ever lives there pays the tax. He was "made redundant" in December,after the works party (yawn !) and told us he claimed "job seekers" & we believe he must have got housing/council tax benefit etc (but they didn't pay him for weeks -thats why he missed rent..). He's being re-mortgaging the annex for "months" - when I saw him it had come thru & will pay arrears that week. My conversation a week later (where's the money?) was that he had been to court over council tax non-payment and the £1,600 paid exactly equalled the rent owed! This may be true as a neighbour had seen a "snooper" that turned out to be a bailiff. We've sent him a schedule of rent paid/unpaid etc and "give us the money". Also sent a letter requesting payment in a week or go to court and pay costs etc. Section as 21 is a "no no" as everone says because of AST not signed. We fancy a solicitors "letter" and/or small claims route - bit worried about getting wording/explanation correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPEL Posted July 16, 2008 Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 Solicitor's letter won't make much difference and the small claims route won 't get back possession. Still serve the S's 8 & 48 as a fall-back. Easy enough to do. If a deposit was taken, not sure from comment, and not registered you could have to pay him 3 times the amount and end up owing not owed. All things considered, cutting your losses to get back possession may be best solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norman Posted July 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 Solicitor's letter won't make much difference and the small claims route won 't get back possession. Still serve the S's 8 & 48 as a fall-back. Easy enough to do. If a deposit was taken, not sure from comment, and not registered you could have to pay him 3 times the amount and end up owing not owed. All things considered, cutting your losses to get back possession may be best solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norman Posted July 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 Thanks for the replies. Getting even more confused now......not heard of a section 48 or registered deposits (he paid us £100 damage deposit on the day he moved in - the solicitors i've spoken to didn't mention them either....will this stop us from getting the rent arrears and being able to evict him ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mortitia Posted July 17, 2008 Report Share Posted July 17, 2008 Thanks for the replies. Getting even more confused now......not heard of a section 48 or registered deposits (he paid us £100 damage deposit on the day he moved in - the solicitors i've spoken to didn't mention them either....will this stop us from getting the rent arrears and being able to evict him ? Back to basics. About the deposit. Since 1st May 06 all deposits taken on lets must be protected either with the goverment DPS or with another organisation. This means being held in an independent fund away from you and the tenant until the end of tenancy. Did you do any of this or just pocket the £100? Check out Section 48 on this site and elsewhere on the net. Mortitia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Dewsberry Posted July 17, 2008 Report Share Posted July 17, 2008 The deposit could have stayed with you if you used insurance sheme and insured it .......but if you didn't/havent then you will not ce able to use S21 to gain possession See www.mydeposits.co.uk The Rodent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPEL Posted July 17, 2008 Report Share Posted July 17, 2008 You're in a pickle. The S8/48 route may be the only way to recover your property and rent arrears. However, case law is new for cases where deposits haven't been registered. A judge may find that a) fine you 3 times deposit for non-registration of the deposit b)rent arrears claim is not valid as the deposit scheme exists to arbritrate on matters such as this and as you aren't registered cannot use the scheme. Cut your losses, get back possession and don't take short cuts next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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