Ram Posted June 14, 2008 Report Share Posted June 14, 2008 Landlords of Landlords but we have lost control. We are a RTM management company for past 25 years of a victorian house split up into 5 Flats, and we administer the property, via Owners management company run from the premises. Last 3 years 3 out of 5 owners have rented out their flats, using letting/ estate agents. The Management company ( comprises the 5 owners ) leases the flats to the owners, therfore in name only, the Management company is the landlord of the 5 flats ( which are bought as a self contained Flat.) If the owners rent out their flat, they then become landlords. So we have a situation where we have 2 landlords ---- The Management company, and the owner renting out his flat. The problem is, Estate agents refuse to give us any information about incoming tenants ( as stipulated in the Management lease ) the owners live hundreds of miles away ( and some are not bothered.) The tenants now can do as they like ( an over exageration ) and we feel we have lost control, as we dont always know who the letting agents are, and they quote the Data Protection act, and refuse to let us know who the new tenants are, coming in. The question is, ( part 1 ) as the Managing agent is us, and is the Landlord of the owners flat ( no rent is paid to us, as the flats are bought ) and the owner is effectively subletting, then can we insist on the conditions of the first Landlord ( the managing agent ) that all owners must agree a "no objection" to new or replacement tenants The Management / owners lease states that all owners to be informed and have to agree to new owners or tenants, but estate agents refuse to tell us, or even tell us -when- they are coming or leaving. Question, ( part 2 ) Can we insist that we are told of new tenants details, as we are the Landlord of their Landlord client, ?? so we can advise the other 4 owners if they have any objection to incoming tenants, and take steps to block them. I don't want to insist, if this is a complicated setup, and or upset the owner renting out their flat. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPEL Posted June 14, 2008 Report Share Posted June 14, 2008 Subject to the lease conditions, it's quite straight forward really. Your gripe is with the individual leaseholders that aren't complying with the terms. The agents are under no obligation to do anything for you and if the leaseholder hasn't provide them with a copy of the head lease, then the tenant has no contractual obligations to it. I think it's unreasonable and impracticle for each new tenancy to have to be agreed by all the other owners. It's no wonder it causes you problems, how on earth do you decide what's an acceptable tenant or not and what if one owner has a problem with another and objects just to be difficult. Trying writing to each individual property for attention of the owner. Also, if you know who's managing do the same and ask the agent to pass it on, but don't try putting obligations on them as it's likely to meet brick walls. Ultimately, if leaseholders aren't in compliance, they are liable for charges rectifying the problem. Do you not have their bank details for receipt of ground rent/communal cleaning etc? Banks may also pass on letters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram Posted June 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2008 Thanks Gpel,, it's good to receive a positive reply. You are right, our gripe is with the Flat owner, and we will go that route. Our problem is with, suddenly, tenants arrive, they have no idea where their parking space is ( no one ever tells them ) and immediately block the only garage allocated, which infuriates the owner, as ringing 4 door bells to ask permision from strangers to leave the premises, gets a bit tedious. All we want is to know is---when--- new tenants are to arrive, and when they intend to leave. Will take on board your suggestion, which is in fact, the right way to approach this. Thanks. Your gripe is with the individual leaseholders that aren't complying with the terms. I think it's unreasonable and impracticle for each new tenancy to have to be agreed by all the other owners. Ultimately, if leaseholders aren't in compliance, they are liable for charges rectifying the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Dewsberry Posted June 14, 2008 Report Share Posted June 14, 2008 Why Not identify "common problems" and either get the solutions written into the ast (which the T WONT read any way !) but will at least give opp of redress ..... Also simple sits like the "garage" can be typed up and laminated and diplayed either in the flat or prominent communal location ??? The Rodent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roppa Posted June 16, 2008 Report Share Posted June 16, 2008 Why Not identify "common problems" and either get the solutions written into the ast (which the T WONT read any way !) but will at least give opp of redress ..... Also simple sits like the "garage" can be typed up and laminated and diplayed either in the flat or prominent communal location ??? The Rodent See, now that is what i would do, the laminate part.. knowing when the tenants come and go is one thing, but maybe to make it easier for yourself so that you sort out some common problems.. there must be some sort of "comon parts" that the tenants/owners frequent.. why not just put up some sort of laminate indicating a) which flat has it's designated parking space and where when the bins are collected and where should they be stored. (amazing how many "new" tenants dont know this, and how many managing agents / landlords forget to informt here tenants about it) c) where to congregate incase of fire (this should probably be done anyway am thinking.. but just incase) d) locations of YOUR office and contact details (incase of problems with the common area's to contact you... Broken lock on common entrance door for example) "sneaky part incoming"!!!! e) A request for new/existing occupants of the premises to contact yourself and register with you incase of evacuation of the property so that all residents can be accounted for (say it's some new terror law that has come out.. no-one will question it if they think it is for there safety) This way you get a name and address of the tenant for "safety reasons" Now.. this might work.. it might not.. but for the sake of a bit of laminate being made up, it might save some headaches in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram Posted June 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2008 Reply to roppa + rodent Q. Why Not identify "common problems" and either get the solutions written into the ast" ( Assured Shorthold Tenancy Agreement ) A. Cos the owners wont bother to have their letting agents put this into a standard lease. Q. state which flat has it's designated parking space and where. A. There is, there are, but it's visitors that also DEMAND access, and park where they like. We have a euro bin, ( our flat has wheelie bins on assisted collection ) and tenants refuse to bing it in, It's easy when empty. They walk past it, and we have it in writing from one tenant that they will not bring it it. so we will get fined one day. 3 out of 5 flats are rented, with total income of £ 1500 a month to the respective owners, the letting agents get £ 150 between them So a total of £ 1650, yet to cover the points Bins, collection dates, garage, parking spaces, parking problems, it's muggins here that does it for them for no renumeration whatsoever. You cant talk to the owners, they cant see that as directors they must act as directors, the letting agents / estate agents think they rule the property. As we said, as a management company, we have lost control, letting agents wont talk to you, say to contact the owners, who so long as a letting agent looks after their flat, are not too bothered, although i saw one owner yesterday.. Tenants rule, and the existing 2 owners have to pick up the mess of the tenants, ( be it only occationaly ) pull bin in, remove unwanted weekly free papers from entrance of 3 flats.. We have tried a Managing agent, but sacked them as they were useless. £ 1650 a month going to the owners and agents. and tenants in control !!!! so I should charge for ownes / letting agents failure to instruct / give info on bins etc ? is there a way to force owners to include items of the Headlease, and resolutions into the lease of their rented out flats ( if they wont, they wont ). or a single owner force the above issues. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Dewsberry Posted June 16, 2008 Report Share Posted June 16, 2008 A good letter to the owners otlining the above wit proposed solutions to problems is neccessary, responsibilities need to be allocated ...fine for bin will go to individual who put them out ...(so make sure that that is not you!) or charge for all of the extra services you are providing ....parking problem could become very profitable if "private clamping" is introduced .... Until responsibilty is allocated choas will reign ! this must be done in ast or management contract... The Rodent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram Posted June 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2008 Rodent wrote :-letter to the owners with proposed solutions Done that, and no response. fine for bin will go to individual who put them out Then the Euro Bin won't be put out, and tenants refuse to take out or bring in. or charge for all of the extra services you are providing At the Agm , 3 of the 5 owners will vote "no" to extra charges or private clamping. There should be gates across the entrance, and were taken off as they rusted away 10 years ago, but the other owners vote "no" to replacing them, even though it's in the headlease to have Gates. Until responsibilty is allocated choas will reign ! this must be done in ast or management contract... Owners renting will not listen, and will refuse to get their letting agents to add items to AST, refuse to act as responsible Directors of the Managing company. How do we - without huge financial cost, get these items resolved ? Best we sell and move on !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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