Richlist Posted November 8, 2011 Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 This thread must hold the record for being the longest thread to get nowhere fast. I suppose there has been progress......of sorts....but its hard to define exactly what! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axil23 Posted November 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 This thread must hold the record for being the longest thread to get nowhere fast. I suppose there has been progress......of sorts....but its hard to define exactly what! lol. I know its gone from a section 8 to eviction to getting rent to getting chased by shelter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richlist Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 I know its gone from a section 8 to eviction to getting rent to getting chased by shelter. Well without reading the whole 4 pages....... I know that from the 9th June, the date of your original post on this matter, to the current date, is over 5 months .........do you still have the tenant ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grampa Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 When you recieved the funds from the council there should have been some paperwork. What does it state? If it states housing benefit (LHA) for periods the tenant was living at the property I see no reason why you cannot keep it, if it covers rent arrears for the time the tenant was living at the property. Otherwise ask what legal basis they can request it back no matter who asks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axil23 Posted November 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 I know its gone from a section 8 to eviction to getting rent to getting chased by shelter. Well without reading the whole 4 pages....... I know that from the 9th June, the date of your original post on this matter, to the current date, is over 5 months .........do you still have the tenant ? No I got him out and was lucky enough to also get his housing benefit back dated for the entire time that he didn't pay me. When you recieved the funds from the council there should have been some paperwork. What does it state? If it states housing benefit (LHA) for periods the tenant was living at the property I see no reason why you cannot keep it, if it covers rent arrears for the time the tenant was living at the property. Otherwise ask what legal basis they can request it back no matter who asks. Yeah it was paid as housing benefit and came along with the letter explaining how much was paid for which dates. I am not giving this one back without a fight. BTW I bumped into the old T a few days back and he was asking for the money back in perfect English. I then pretended myself that he I could not understand him. Taste of his own medicine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axil23 Posted November 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2011 Oh well. Got a letter from the council to ask for the £400 over payment back. Normal letter that if I want to appeal I can. It says that they paid a little extra every week then what the contract states. Is there any point appealing? Its not that they have refused the claim, its still ok just I guess Shelter probably wrote them a letter asking for the money to be refunded? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grampa Posted November 19, 2011 Report Share Posted November 19, 2011 If the council have may a mistake then yes they cannot ask for it back.(i think) I will dig the rules out over the weekend and post again shortly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axil23 Posted November 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2011 Thanks grampa. Look forward to that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grampa Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 Housing benefits (regulation 100) state that all overpayment's are recoverable unless it was a council error or the landlord could not have known there was a overpayment. Council Circular "HB/CTB Circular A4/2006 Regulation 6(3) to (5) amend Regulation 101 of the HB regulations, so that the chief consideration when deciding 'whom to recover from' should be who has misrepresented or failed to disclose information, and in a case of official error the person who could reasonably have been expected to realise that there had been an overpayment. This will mean that overpayment's caused by a change to the claimant's personal circumstances, which the landlord could not possibly know about, should be recovered from the claimant rather than from the landlord. If this legislative requirement to recover from the person who has misrepresented or failed to disclose information (or could reasonably have been expected to realise there was an overpayment) is not taken into account, the person from whom payment is wrongly sought will have a right of appeal to an appeal tribunal, on the basis that the LA has not applied the law correctly, in accordance with the Tribunal of Commissioners' decision You now need to write back to the council and ask for a "revision of their decision" within about 10-14 days quoting the above section that applies to you. If the decision isn't changed you still have the right to appeal and go to a tribunal but you have to do that within a month of getting the new decision. You could put in the first letter that you will go to a tribunal if the decision isn't changed and that may influence their decision making. Hope that helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grampa Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 Also have a look at this http://www.dwp.gov.u...payments-guide/ and http://www.dwp.gov.u...ance-manual.pdf Ideal if you cant get to sleep one night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axil23 Posted November 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 You now need to write back to the council and ask for a "revision of their decision" within about 10-14 days quoting the above section that applies to you. If the decision isn't changed you still have the right to appeal and go to a tribunal but you have to do that within a month of getting the new decision. You could put in the first letter that you will go to a tribunal if the decision isn't changed and that may influence their decision making. Hope that helps Firstly thanks Grampa. You are a asset to this forum. Ok so just to clarify I will be appealing that they money paid was correct as there is no change in circumstances for the tenant right? It must have been Shelter who wrote to the council asking for the excess rent to be returned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grampa Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 I am a little unsure of why they are asking for a repayment but the way I see it is as long as the council payments relate to the period the tenant lived at the property.(the paperwork you got with the payment will have dates on it) they cant ask for it to be repaid. If it is a offical error quote reg 2.51 from the HB/CTB Overpayments Guide 2.51 An LA official error overpayment is only recoverable when the person affected could, at the time of receipt of the payment, or any notice relating to that payment, reasonably have been expected to realise that it was an overpayment. Also inclose a clear rent statement record showing any arrears and list of HB payments recieved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axil23 Posted November 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 Grampa say if the contract states that the rent is £450 a month and the housing benefit comes out at £500. Who is entitled to the differance? The Tenant, Landlord or should the council not pay out over and above what the Tenancy states? Also it says that unless they get the payment within a month I could loose the privilege of direct payment for all my other properties. If I appeal that won't happen will it? Or do they send another letter before they cancel direct payment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grampa Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 So was £500 paid for the whole period the tenant lived there? If so does it total more than the total rent owed according to the contract. If not you could wing it and state you had no reason to think is was incorrect because you didnt get the full amount at the start of the tenancy or when ever the payments went up or down. If the total paid was more than required for the whole tenancy period I am not sure you if you can fight it but I would still try under the offical error route. I would also add in your letter that if you lose direct payment on your other properties you will evict the tenants asap. As the amount is fairly small also mention you will go to tribunal if the decision is not revised. You have nothing to lose by appealing and everything to gain. I would like to add this is just my view of how I would likely to handle it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grampa Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 Is the £450 pcm or 4 weekly and is the £500 the amount the council paid or the figure converted from a 4 weekly calculation ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axil23 Posted November 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 So was £500 paid for the whole period the tenant lived there? If so does it total more than the total rent owed according to the contract. If not you could wing it and state you had no reason to think is was incorrect because you didnt get the full amount at the start of the tenancy or when ever the payments went up or down. If the total paid was more than required for the whole tenancy period I am not sure you if you can fight it but I would still try under the offical error route. I would also add in your letter that if you lose direct payment on your other properties you will evict the tenants asap. As the amount is fairly small also mention you will go to tribunal if the decision is not revised. You have nothing to lose by appealing and everything to gain. I would like to add this is just my view of how I would likely to handle it. It was £450 a month for 8 months which is £3600. I got £4100,. So the council over paid by £15 a week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axil23 Posted November 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 Is the £450 pcm or 4 weekly and is the £500 the amount the council paid or the figure converted from a 4 weekly calculation ? It was £450 a month for 8 months which is £3600. I got £4100,. So the council over paid by £15 a week. What do you suggest Grampa? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grampa Posted November 23, 2011 Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 Was the tenant only in the property for 8 months? Are there any rent arrears at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axil23 Posted November 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 Was the tenant only in the property for 8 months? Are there any rent arrears at all? Yeah he was there for 8 months after I successfully took him out through a section 8. He owes me 7 months rent + Court fees and some other repair charges totaling around £500 as he left the house in a mess. The council has now paid me 8 months at an extra £15 a week then is on the AST. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grampa Posted November 23, 2011 Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 In that case get a basic spreadsheet of rent payment for the whole period he lived at the property including all HB payments. Write to the council something on the lines of: _________________________________________________________________________________ Dear Sir RE: Overpayment, Claim No xxxx, Mr xxxxxxx I request a revision of your decision to seek repayment from me of Local Housing Allowance I received for Mr xxxx who was a tenant of mine at xxxxxxxxxxx. As you can see from the attached rent schedule Mr xxxxxx has rent arrears of xxxxxx. When I started receiving Local Housing Allowance I had no reason you believe it was the incorrect amount due to an official error on your behalf. The tenant who would have also recieved the same details of the payments made as well didnt realise there was an error either. Regulation 2.51 from the HB/CTB Overpayments Guide states 2.51 An LA official error overpayment is only recoverable when the person affected could, at the time of receipt of the payment, or any notice relating to that payment, reasonably have been expected to realise that it was an overpayment. I suggest to you that as neither myself (the landlord), the tenant or the council housing benefit dept did not relise there was a overpayment it is unreasonble to recover payment from myself. If the decision is not revised I am prepared to appeal and go to a tribunal. If you have any questions regarding the above please contact me. _________________________________________________________________ You may want to jiggle about a bit and correct the gramma etc as i am no letter writer. No guarentee it will work but I guess it depends how strong they think the case is and how much effort they want to put into collecting 400 quid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axil23 Posted November 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 Thanks Grampa. Will keep you posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axil23 Posted November 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 So I started typing the letter and lost heart. The council employee who sent me the letter was good to me. He called me after 8 months and told me that they would send all rent direct to me for my evicted T. I got 8 months rent so I guess I shouldn't be greedy. Think I will let this one pass rather then test Karma. Thanks for all your help Grampa, the information you supplied will be handy for any future come backs and I hope this is the last we hear from this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julles Posted November 23, 2011 Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 I have been watching this thread with interest as I am just about to write to council to query a repayment they want from me ...different circumstances from yourself Axil but ... Grampa..your letter template will go along way in helping me with that letter ,thankyou Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grampa Posted November 23, 2011 Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 Best check the spelling first:blink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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