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heebs

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Also not forgetting that along with higher risk. more time greater admin, doubling up as a free social worker.........

you will almost certainly not be acheiving full market rent ....

I guess if property location and style within portfolio is in HB area then you have no choice but to work thos market ....

All things need to be considered when planning portfolio ...

The Rodent

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oops, well to be honest I have one answer really,

Call HB and deal with them directly.

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More wasted and unpaid time then ...!

And just what effect can LL have on :

1. T has partner living with them which HB have become aware of ..and have stopped payment

2. T has been "accused"of working whilst claiming

3. A "rare"one this (NOT!)...HB have lost documentation ...for the 5th time ...even though you as LL have faxed emailed and hand delivered documents WITH a receipt

4. T refuses to go for interview

5. HB have miscalculated claim (their fault and now have reduced benefit to 1 quarter of previous in order to reclaim overpayment )

6. T forgot to declare "some of their income"

granted no 3 is resolvable but the others ....???

The Rodent

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WOW .... what have I started ....

I totally agree with everything that J4L says and confirm that EXPERIENCE (rather than bigotry or anecdotal evidence) shows that DSS tenants are, on the whole, great tenants. Penny pinching LLs are more troublesome than the average DSS tenant.

I would also comment that the LHA has INCREASED the amount of rent (in my local area) that is being paid so that DSS tenants are now paying more than working tenants. So, to add to rodents points, LLs are now being rewarded for the "extra risk involved in dealing with the DSS" - although I don't believe there is any real extra risk.

J4L and my business, mlettings, are making an absolute killing whilst a lot of LL are having extended void periods and lower rents from tenants who work. I have never been let down by a DSS tenant because, like J4L, I manage the situation and the tenancy (rather than generalising about how bad DSS tenants are).

I, too, would lend money to my DSS tenants and also lend my children to them (are we suggesting that DSS tenants are lepers and should be given a bell to ring when they complete their HB claim form).

I must admit that I wouldn't be able to marry a DSS tenant though because the amount of money that I'm making out of renting property to DSS would mean that THEY would have to stop claiming benefits!

IT'S NOT ABOUT SOCIAL WORK - IT'S A BUSINESS - so my advice is stop getting so emotional about it all .... take the money and enjoy ZERO void periods every year.

Mark

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Mark / J4L

perhaps one of you could answer the question posed ...for the third time now !!!

And just what effect can LL have on :

1. T has partner living with them which HB have become aware of ..and have stopped payment

2. T has been "accused"of working whilst claiming

3. A "rare"one this (NOT!)...HB have lost documentation ...for the 5th time ...even though you as LL have faxed emailed and hand delivered documents WITH a receipt

4. T refuses to go for interview

5. HB have miscalculated claim (their fault and now have reduced benefit to 1 quarter of previous in order to reclaim overpayment )

6. T forgot to declare "some of their income"

granted no 3 is resolvable but the others ....???

The Rodent

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Hi rodent,

I am happy to answer your individual queries below :-

1) Visit the HB office, with the tenant and the "living in partner", provide the evidence that the HB office want (that the partner has moved in) so that they can re-assess the claim then it will be unsuspended!

2) Find out whether the tenant is working or not - if they are working then get some rent off them - if they aren't working then arrange a meeting with HB with the tenant and tell them they are wrong and prove it!

3) HB do lose documentation and tenants sometimes forget to send it - if they've lost it - give it to them again AND GET A RECEIPT so that you can PROVE they have lost it.

4) If the tenant won't claim their benefit then, I grant, you are in trouble. You shouldn't have selected the tenant in the first place. Evict and be more careful in the future.

5) Appeal the recalculation, get the tenant to prove their income, the claim will then be amended and the landlord will not lose out at all.

6) OK - so the tenants claim is going to get amended and the tenant will probably owe you a little bit of rent. Arrange a repayment plan with the tenant.

In summary - just because you don't know what you are doing and aren't able to handle the HB office is not a valid reason, in my opinion, to discrimate against EVERY DSS tenant on the planet.

All landlords take note - if the housing market crashes as predicted - perhaps a few of you will be made bankrupt and need to claim Housing benefit yourself.

Mark

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"perhaps a few of you will be made bankrupt and need to claim Housing benefit yourself".

I keep cats but wouldn't want tenants to keep cats in my property anymore than I'd want DSS applicants because one day I may be one. Wrong to assume others will have same level of responsibility that you'd show yourself... Hence one of the reasons many/most are reluctanct to take DSS.

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Hi rodent,

I am happy to answer your individual queries below :-

1) Visit the HB office, with the tenant and the "living in partner", provide the evidence that the HB office want (that the partner has moved in) so that they can re-assess the claim then it will be unsuspended!

My time is expensive ....who wil reimburse my half day's income ??Also you assume co-operation which as you put it ,puts you in "cuckoo land" ...Mark get real here .....a part time boyfriend is VERY NOT going to do this ...cant belive you would insult our intelligence with this reply............

2) Find out whether the tenant is working or not - if they are working then get some rent off them - if they aren't working then arrange a meeting with HB with the tenant and tell them they are wrong and prove it!.

So now i need to be a an undercover agent !!(unpaid no less) Cash in hand jobs .....you are back in "cuckoo land"

3) HB do lose documentation and tenants sometimes forget to send it - if they've lost it - give it to them again AND GET A RECEIPT so that you can PROVE they have lost it.

Have done this several times but still means info has to all be re sent ...more time and energy..

4) If the tenant won't claim their benefit then, I grant, you are in trouble. You shouldn't have selected the tenant in the first place. Evict and be more careful in the future.

Not a case of T not claiming ...case of T not wanting to admit to getting caught out lying at interview ....claim stopped ...go to interview and admit lying .....or.....leave where it is and claim dead ....t then did a runner ....

5) Appeal the recalculation, get the tenant to prove their income, the claim will then be amended and the landlord will not lose out at all.

So now i need to become an appeals officer working for free !!!.........

6) OK - so the tenants claim is going to get amended and the tenant will probably owe you a little bit of rent. Arrange a repayment plan with the tenant.

"probably " !!!!!.......great with someone who can ill afford "normal" rent let alone paying extras.

In summary - just because you don't know what you are doing and aren't able to handle the HB office is not a valid reason, in my opinion, to discrimate against EVERY DSS tenant on the planet.

It is because i DO know what i am doing that i have the good sense NOT to take in HB without a Gaurantor

May i suggest anyone considering HB as T ....GET A GAURANTOR as ALL of the above is avoided with one call to the G to collect any overdue rent ....

No discrimination at all, just risk management, which you have graphically described as having HUGE implications on a LL/LA time effort and resources......have you not?

WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO MAKE LIFE ANY HARDER ?

All landlords take note - if the housing market crashes as predicted - perhaps a few of you will be made bankrupt and need to claim Housing benefit yourself.

If i do, i'll be comming to you, Mark, to fill in all my forms, sort me out with a house, do you come round and cook, clean and pay for my shopping as well ?

Mark ...if you got G for your HB T then you would not NEED an HB officer to work for you (or equivalent member of staff...) and save yourself 15-20K on wages ........but guess i suppose it depends on what sector of the market you choose to operate in .

I have at NO point said they(HB) were "bad" T ...rather high maintenace T which clearly they very much "can" be ....none of the above issues are even raised with prof T ......this is not opinion ....it is fact !

All said , as stated i have half a dozen HB T who will prob be T for life.......my compassionate (soft ...non business side of me) feels sorry for them, so i let them stay as they are "friends" ...but deep down i know i will not ever get my "full" money from them ...i have one guy paying off nearly £3000 of arrears at £5 per week(with no interest or charges) ....hmmm well that will take around 12 years .............Not the best deal in the world for me ......AND THAT IS IGNORING the 12 Christmas's that will happen in between (Turkeys,presents,a few nights on the lash etc)...........

That is the reality of HB as you well know, so to portray them as Saints and good business, is totally unrealistic as you are more than aware .........

Any newbie LL PLEASE take heed GET AN A1 referenced G or the above is what an experienced HB LL/LA has clearly described your time will be eaten up doing ........We havent got to how much time energy and cash it takes to actually get rid of such a "problem " T in this discussion ...............believe me it is no joke ........

ALL OF THE ABOVE CAN BE AVOIDED BY GETTING A GAURANTOR.

I'll finish where i started

No "proper, A1, fully ref Gaurantor" then NO DEAL....

Thats it .

The Rodent

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Hi rodent,

I think we are going to have to agree to differ on this one .....

DSS tenants are, in my experience, great as long as the landlord pro-actively manages the tenancy .......

However - if the landlord can't be bothered to manage the tenancies ..... then problems can occur ....

Then again .. those landlords who only accept working tenants can also come unstuck when the tenants turns out to be a

professional cannabis grower and the rental property turns out to be a cannabis factory and the landlord - who doesn't bother to manage the tenancy - doesn't discover it (because the landlord never inspected the property) - until the police raid the joint !

Mark

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Yep .......If you ask for trouble you will get it ......HB no Gaurantor .....i think we have explored the possibilities.....

Intrigued as to which one(s) of the above you disagree with tho ???

Managing straight foward Tenancies is job enough without inviting multiple extra problems such as discussed.

No inspections then .....all sorts can happen ......BUT if one has 6 mts up front and a very large Bond one has gone so far to manage the risk that it actually left me with healthy profit (appreciate i was lucky !! and i would not be recommending it to anyone !) .....unless you happen to have a share of the proceeds .....(which i didn't!!)

An interesting aside .......people that grow cannabis pay rent early and in full !! as they dont want to give an excuse for you to call round !!!!

The Rodent

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Apologies for not being on here to answer your questions simon but have been very busy

(checking in 3 new T's on the weekend, on HB by the way!)

I think Mark has answered all your questions suitably and given reasons WHY we do this and why we deem ourselves to be managing effectively.

Many times on here people say that letting your property out can and should be run as a business and how right they are.

If you haven't 'got the time' to manage then you are not running your business properly.

If you split yourself over a few businesses (as we know you do Simon) then are you really affording the time to your properties as maybe you could/should?

Work out how much your 'actual' time is worth, how many hours do you spend in the shop and divide this by your net profit and work out what your hourly rate is worth. Then do the same for your portfolio. I'll bet a £ to a penny that the figures will surprise you.

I see our service as a form of 'insurance' service. A bit like British Gas taking £20 / mth off me to cover any faults with the boiler in my house. Now I bet that they've got thousands of customers who happily pay the same but on average they get a problem every 18mths-24mths, dependant on their system (age, quality, etc)

By the way, I've been paying this for 6 years and had one call out, one fault, costing about £170 to repair.

Should I call British Gas out more regularly then they'll either cut their losses and put a new boiler in or recommend that I purchase a new one (depending on the cover I have)

Letting is much the same.

To instruct an agent that may charge 5%-10% pm for a service, cuts down the actual work that you have to do managing your portfolio.

We do all the leg work and manage the property properly. If we continually experience problems we would suggest installing a new Tenant.

I know the answer that's going to be given to this is going to be

'well my experience of LA's is they don't do anything for their money, and they don't/can't manage my properties as well as I can'

I think you'll find that my answer to this would be 'seek and ye shall find'

Mark is correct, It's about initially installing the correct T, too many LL's just grab the money without really checking these people out. Of course mistakes are made, but as long as we learn from them we can better place T's in the future.

Guarantors are a MUST (as Simon states) for me, although occasionally I do let the odd one through, although many many more checks are carried out before I would let this happen.

Once T's are installed then regular inspections are also a MUST. Many LA's get accused of not doing these and in my experience there are lots who don't, but more astonishingly there are more LL's who do not do them.

The advice Mark has given is sound and I agree with all of it.

Problems with HB payments? - communicate with your local office, If you don't like what you hear, APPEAL against the decision straight away, don't wait and bury your head in the sand, communicate with the T's aswell, all the time.

If you can't be bothered/haven't got the time to manage properties yourself, get a professional to do it, There really are some great one's out there.

Personally, If I had a business with large assets (such as a large portfolio) I wouldn't look on it as 'wasting my time' or 'who's going to pay my half days income' or comments like these I'd be spending ALL my time managing it,

as we do for our clients.

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special note to Simon :-

Did I see your car the other evening mate?

Is there a similar vermin connection on the number plate?

Haha.

If so I now KNOW where you live!!! :ph34r:

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This topic has been well discussed and we all have our own experiences and opinions ......which i am sure will remain ......Hopefully readers will have some insights into possibe problems and solutions when dealing with HB cases..............

If not it was great to vent my spleen again !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Rodent

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Well I wouldn't be as coarse as to name the Rd but I will say it's a main Rd with a lane next to it and a well known estate agent is selling the house on the other side of the lane?

It was quite late at night and of course you may have been visiting, I passed again only a few hours ago and it wasn't there this time. Hey maybe you are out working!! hehe

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I've just read in the local press that one of my tenants recently received a suspended sentence for being found in a car park with cannabis, £4k and a machete in his car. For 2 years the house has always been kept immaculate, rent paid on time and the occupants very approachable when something needed doing. Ironically, there may be some truth in Rodent's comment about tenants like this.

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