Dave A Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 Thanks for that. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chestnut Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 Richlist: Sorry, 38deg is centigrade - I forgot to state units. Equivalent to 100deg Fahrenheit - recommended safe temperature for hand washing. Usual factory setting for aforementioned mixer valves in modern installations. As you say - use common sense! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richlist Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 Ok but the output from mixer valves can't be hotter than the temperature of the water in the hot water tank. So irrespective of any pre-set on a thermostatic mixer valve what's important is the hot tank temperature setting. Electric showers don't usually have a safe setting. Legionalla temperature testing is only relevant to tank stored water not water directly from mains supply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chestnut Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 Absolutely Richlist - entirely agree! My point (to Melboy) was about RLA Note to measure water temperature at outlets. Fine if no mixer valve present to reduce temperature. Non-techy person may not know why outlet temp falls within Legionnaire range but nevertheless quite safe because it's just been cooled upstream by mixer. I guess we're all tired of this topic!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smunt Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 Richlist. You have stated that "Legionalla temperature testing is only relevant to tank stored water not water directly from mains supply." I think if you look at the Legionella ACoP issued by the HSE this is incorrect and could be dangerous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richlist Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 smunt Ok, Yes it was a poor choice of words on my part. To clarify.....My understanding is that legionella water temperature testing in residenial property is mainly concerned with hot & cold water temp from water stored in tanks. Yes I know cold water temp even from the mains can be affected by poorly installed plumbing etc but that wasn't what was being discussed exactly. If you think I've missed something please come back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave A Posted May 29, 2015 Report Share Posted May 29, 2015 My current dilemma is determining whether my tenants are likely to be more succeptible than the average Joe. How far are you expected to go, being medically untrained and all that? Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richlist Posted May 29, 2015 Report Share Posted May 29, 2015 Well I think, again, that it's just down to applying common sense. In my own case I tend to nearly always let to fit, healthy, fully employed, intelligent professionals who lead the sort of normal lives that millions of others around the country lead. It therefore follows that they are not at any increased risk, due to their health or lifestyle than others. But, if I were letting to people who were in one or more of the following groups....elderly, unemployed, on benefits, low income, poorly educated, drug addicts, people with health or mobility issues, people with carers or who have physical or mental disabilities etc I might consider they could be at increased risk of exposure . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melboy Posted May 29, 2015 Report Share Posted May 29, 2015 I guess we're all tired of this topic!! Yes, flogged to death now. Water boarding torture It is only a matter of time before we have........ "Hi Guys I am an HSE Legionnaire expert and for £120 + VAT I can issue you with a 12 month certificate" I am out of this topic now...... never to return . Everything that needs to be said........ has been said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richlist Posted May 29, 2015 Report Share Posted May 29, 2015 Clearly there are still people who need help to understand the what, why, when & who concerning legionella checks so, I see the discussions continuing for some time yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carryon Regardless Posted May 29, 2015 Report Share Posted May 29, 2015 Why do we have to worry about legionaires, we're not French? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smunt Posted May 29, 2015 Report Share Posted May 29, 2015 Because it kills people. As a landlord (who takes income an from tenants)- you have a legal responsibility under the UK law to assess and manage the risks to your tenants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carryon Regardless Posted May 29, 2015 Report Share Posted May 29, 2015 I wonder if the LL of our local club is aware of this? We all use and drink from the storage container down there and I would be surprised if our LL has carried out any checks. The water stands for very long periods, will never be above 60 degrees, and can often be at a temperature that sustains the bacteria. Do you think United Utilities should have the reservoir checked by a consultant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richlist Posted May 29, 2015 Report Share Posted May 29, 2015 Perhaps an equally relevant question might be .....why do some who work in the industry need to make the testing appear more complicated than it is ? They aren't doing themselves any favours and landlords (their potential customers) do not appear to be persuaded that the work involves any more than a few simple checks. Perhaps it might be worthwhile for some of the contributors to try a different approach to the one they have currently adopted. Those of us that can see thru the desperate hard sell being adopted here will also realise that there are lots of variables in residential letting. There are massive differences in types of property (age, geography, size, type, quality etc) and massive differences in tenants so a general one size fits all is virtually impossible with legionella as it is for safety checks of gas & electrics. Clearly working in the industry doesn't automatically endow people with the ability to successfully sell their product, in fact, they appear to have achieved exactly the opposite on this forum. I'd mark them 10 out of 10 for effort and a generous 1 out of 10 for achievement. Overall could do better. Looking forward to the next instalment from those in the industry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smunt Posted May 29, 2015 Report Share Posted May 29, 2015 Richlist. From one of those in the industry. You have hit it on the head - brilliantly ! Because of the massive differences in property the "one size fits all" approach is dangerous, as I have said many times. Each property needs a site specific risk assessment. The difference in size, age etc means that the risks to these properties can be massively different aswell. Which is why I have been trying to advise to make sure all involved are competent and know all the risks and how to deal and manage them properly to avoid prosecution. I don't see the hard sell in that ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richlist Posted May 29, 2015 Report Share Posted May 29, 2015 As with many things in life, a talent for common sense & practicality will often ensure a successfully result. Unfortunately, the other big variable is the 'landlord' who sometimes comes with insufficient quantities of both. It doesn't alter the fact that legionella checks are easy & straightforward for the vast majority of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carryon Regardless Posted May 29, 2015 Report Share Posted May 29, 2015 List of Legionnaires' disease outbreaks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Since we're into jerks doing things with their knees, close the hospitals, drain the cooling towers, ban hot tubs, and the problem is eliminated in the UK. Oh and maybe stop people using their windscreen washers just to be safe. . Is there evidence that we the neglectful LL's are responsible for infecting people? If so then why are we allowed to visit other properties without their owners caring about the risk to us? What with smoke detectors and CO2 detectors maybe there's a market here for Legionella detectors (beside infirm T's that is). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richlist Posted May 29, 2015 Report Share Posted May 29, 2015 Look CoR I know it's hard to swallow and you'd be forgiven if, like me, you felt you were being victimised but there is no getting away from it. It's evident that legionella inspectors believe that landlords, like you & me are not capable of ensuring that our tenants are free from the risk of legionella disease without their intervention. It's a case of JFDI..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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