Jump to content
axil23

Is he a squatter?

Recommended Posts

We know courts will more often give sympathy to T's. Here you have a family you wish to displace.

If / when you go in front of a Judge to say "I only gave the keys so he could paint" A Judge logically will assess how long He and his family have been living there with out your attempt to regain possession. The events that led to his getting the keys, that being His assertion that you needed security, and not from a paintbrush.

You granting a tenancy and then changing your mind will look pretty obvious in my mind. Him being a free loading git is rarely a worry of the Court, especially as he has a family.

I don't like the things that are often done to me by T's, and an unwelcome bf left in a flat by the real T. But before I would attempt some of my preferred, cheaper, and faster methods of repossession I weigh up the likely outcome.

You could try changing locks while they are 'all' out but if the Police or later a Court believe they are in any type of tenancy you're goosed. Are they ? I say yes and to me it's obvious.

So are you saying that something like this could send a person to Jail? Illegal eviction I have heard of and that normally results in a fine. I know of people here who send the toughies around when they have problems and they haven't faced any bother for years. Not that I condone that behavior.

I just feel you are over reacting by saying that the above case can result in Jail. End of the day it will be the police who weigh up the options and ask him to leave under the new act.

Seriously though, you are saying that the courts will send a person to prison for something that there isn't even clear proof off. Are the courts that silly?

I know of a LL who changed a T's locks while they were out due to unpaid rent. The T left and took his stuff to the council and the council told the LL that unless he let them back in they will prosecute. He said that he had left on his own right as he didn't pay his rent. No one had proof of anything the council did not do anything.

Again please don't take this as a argument more of a healthy discussion where we are all learning from each other.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You wont be legally wrong. Like I said you simply say you told him to paint the property which he has done and now he is refusing to leave! Simple as that. Since there is nothing on paper its his word against yours!

Just call the cops when you go round, and they will tell him to sod off believe me! When I and the tenants agree to a date when they wish to leave, and when they dont leave by this date and play "riffraff" I call the cops they usually give them another 24 hour period notice and tell them to do one.

You dont have the time and money to go down the "legal" route for someone who is ILLEGALLY in your property!!

Where's LAW when we need him, lol!

Can you confirm that you're actually in the UK because I doubt that anyone else on this forum has had the police give a rogue tenant 24hours to leave.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So are you saying that something like this could send a person to Jail? Illegal eviction I have heard of and that normally results in a fine. I know of people here who send the toughies around when they have problems and they haven't faced any bother for years. Not that I condone that behavior.

I just feel you are over reacting by saying that the above case can result in Jail. End of the day it will be the police who weigh up the options and ask him to leave under the new act.

Seriously though, you are saying that the courts will send a person to prison for something that there isn't even clear proof off. Are the courts that silly?

I know of a LL who changed a T's locks while they were out due to unpaid rent. The T left and took his stuff to the council and the council told the LL that unless he let them back in they will prosecute. He said that he had left on his own right as he didn't pay his rent. No one had proof of anything the council did not do anything.

Again please don't take this as a argument more of a healthy discussion where we are all learning from each other.

Axil, you should have had enough advice by now to enable you to reach a decision which basically is do you you go down the legal route or do you go down the 'Del Boy' route.

You may well know of a LL who's changed the locks & got away with it. I know people who drink & drive & nothings happened to them, I know people who don't tax or insure their cars & nothings happened to them but I also know a lot more who've been prosecuted.

In an earlier post you said your builder /T was not very nice so that's a starting clue for you insomuch as he's likely to call your bluff.

As LAW said earlier you could try arguing that he's an excluded occupier who doesn't pay rent but if he's half a brain he'll argue that his charge for guarding your property & or decorating is worth £x's & that he regards it as payment of rent because rent doesn't have to be in hard cash in which case he'll be regarded as a normal tenant, which was the exact legal position I was deemed to be in after a solicitor had scrutinised the arrangement in great detail.

Your potential legal bill in challenging his tenant status could be astronomical which is why I chose to accept that my builder was a T & serve a Section 21. A few month's rent was a lot cheaper than a contested court battle.

http://england.shelt...llegal_eviction

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest tenants_from_hell

Where's LAW when we need him, lol!

Can you confirm that you're actually in the UK because I doubt that anyone else on this forum has had the police give a rogue tenant 24hours to leave.

I think you have a personal issue with me because I know how to stand my ground aginst those that blow hot air too much...

In 2009, me and my T agreed in May that he would leave by the end of June. When it came to the date he would refuse to move. And was saying "what do you want me to do kill myself?" and all the other crap they come out with. And I gave the property to another tenant and this one was claiming the new T wont mind me staying downstairs for a "few days".

So I went away, came back with an hour with 6 lads. We started moving their stuff for them, and that point he actually called the police. Simultaneously, so did I. When the cops came I explained the situation to them, the T agreed he was given a verbal notice. The cops said I would ask him to go now (it was about 5pm) but he has a young child. The cops said you got till mid-day tommorow to leave.

The following day, he was moving his stuff slowly, and it was gone mid-day and he became arsey again. Gave another call to the bobbies, they came down and speeded the idiot up and he left.

Obviously an idiot like you wants "evidence" as in a news story. But such small cases dont get published by the media much to your displeasure.

If you have used the police in a situation like this they would side with you and say "it has been a breach of contract" as was with a different case I had and got them involved again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just because it worked once doesnt make it right or a guarantee that it will work again. A lot of police do not know tenancy law.

It only needs a couple of clicks on the PC to shelter and if they get involed your -uc--d.

I am all for thinking outside the box to resolve a stiuation without getting legal but I am not sure you can with this one. If the builder had only been in the property for a couple/few of days it may be possible but the longer he is there with the family the more tricky your situation becomes.

Tenants_from_hell your real name isnt Nicholas van Hoogstraten by any chance it?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2002/jul/23/jeevanvasagar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Whatever experience you've had TFH it's a million miles way from mine, and those I've heard others not enjoy.

Axil, illegal eviction 'can' result in 6 months jail and £5k fine. In reality the result is likely to be far less, but what value the stress while you wait to find out ?

The civil action reward that is possible for such a T is amazing and one hell on an incentive for them. I don't intend to explain too deeply for those corrupt gits that may read this.

Some years ago I had all the threats from the local housing when I changed the locks on a T while he was in hospital after jumping in front of a bus. He and his associates were creating a very threatening environment for the other flats in the block. I point blank refused the inspectors request / demand. Nothing came of it. You decide how lucky I was.

It's not that I sympathise with your 'T', but nowadays I have greater understanding.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest tenants_from_hell

Well sometimes you have to play dirty to win and its for your best interest (because the tenants certainly play dirty). Like I said the OP can go the long route and lose out more rent and in court costs, that is upto him.

If you anyone else wishes to go that route, go for it. We are not made of money, certainly I am not, I have mortgages and cant afford to have someone living for free for 6 months whilst I waste more money in court.

And no am not Van Hoogstraten am not that bad...

@ COR yes you are right, you have to weigh up your options.

Earlier this year, I had 2 tenants who I found out had 6 dogs in the house. If I knew this from September last year when they took the house of course I wouldnt have let the house to them as I put in £1000 worth of carpet in the property. I asked them and at first they said no we just got one, but the story was different, many dog beds in the house and bowls for dogs etc. I asked them to leave, they started paying rent in bits and bobs.

Then they went to some housing shelter place and claimed I was making them homeless. Some chap from the organisation rang me, at first I said I dont even need to talk to you its between me and my tenant. Then I decided I'll speak to him, he said she feels threatened from you. When I explained I have been getting rent late and the fact that she has half a dozen dogs in my property which is against the t&c of the tenancy then he shut up.

I decided, I wanted to go around and speak to the tenants and see whether they were going to leave on the date given. Since they made false "allegation" against me that they feel threatened, I decided to take a bobby around with me as a mutual person so any further allegations cannot be made. The T said she will leave on the date.

When I went round the house on the day, neither keys would go in the front and back double glazing locks, I banged on the doors for an hour or so. Seen the kitchen window was shut, but not locked. They climbed out of the kitchen window thinking I wouldnt notice it and left the keys in the doors so I cant come in from the doors.

The cops are there to use as a mutual person on no one's side and give a fair view. Furthermore, they provide authority. Both of these eliminates the chances of any allegations, threats arising because if they do the T can be in deep trouble...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...