kayk88 Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 Hello everyone, Wonder if you could help me! I'm a tenant but need to know from your point of view :-) Myself and my partner signed individual contracts for 2 separate rooms in s house share, paid the deposit etc and paid the first months rent upfront. The contract was for a 12 month contract with the first 6 months fixed and requiring 2 months notice to end it at the end of the fixed period. We found a house to share as a couple and gave the landlord just over 2 months notice to end the agreement at the end of the 6 months but also said we would help find replacements so we could move sooner. The landlord agreed and we managed to replace me 1 month before my agreement ended. The landlord was happy and the new guy moved in. Now, here is the interesting part, I have asked for my deposit back and the landlord has now informed me that he will need to take out money to pay for the new contract for my replacement or early ending fee for my contract. I feel this is barbaric! I replaced myself which he agreed and took the gentlemen on, he would have had to have done that anyway once we had moved but we did it for him. Can you tell me if he is right to do that please? as i have no experience with this type of thing. Cheers in advance!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richlist Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 The contract was for a 12 month contract with the first 6 months fixed and requiring 2 months notice to end it at the end of the fixed period. Never heard of a contract like that ! Do you mean it was a 12 month contract with a 6 month break clause ? Was it an AST ? Now, here is the interesting part, I have asked for my deposit back Was the deposit protected ? and the landlord has now informed me that he will need to take out money to pay for the new contract for my replacement or early ending fee for my contract. I feel this is barbaric! I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayk88 Posted October 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 The exact wording on the contract is as follows Term: Approximately 12 months commencing 30th April 2011 and ending 29th April 2012 and any period of holding over or extension or continuance by statute or common law. The tenant may give 2 months notice to the landlord to end this agreement after initial 6 months tenancy. It was a Assured Shorthold Tenancy agreement. I have no Idea whether the deposit was protected, we didn't receive a letter like we have for new property. It does say in our contract that the landlord shall protect the deposit in accordance with the requirements of the housing Act 2004. Do you agree with me or the landlord? I don't mind if the landlord had turn't round and said I need to charge you for ending the contract early and it wasn't a high amount but I'm not paying for him to get a new contract for my replacement as he would have had to do that in a month anyway so how is it different now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richlist Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 OK, sounds like a 12 month AST with a break clause. As it started on 30th April 2011 your 2 months notice can take effect from 30th October 2011 and you can leave under the terms of the contract on 30th December. Of course you can leave earlier but your liability for rent payments continues until then. I have no Idea whether the deposit was protected, we didn't receive a letter like we have for new property. Your landlord is legally required to protect the deposit and ensure that the tenant is issued with the appropriate notice. As you have NOT received the notice I would urge you to check if the deposit has actually been protected. It does say in our contract that the landlord shall protect the deposit in accordance with the requirements of the housing Act 2004. That is not guarantee that he has done it. Do you agree with me or the landlord? I don't mind if the landlord had turn't round and said I need to charge you for ending the contract early and it wasn't a high amount but I'm not paying for him to get a new contract for my replacement as he would have had to do that in a month anyway so how is it different now? Well I think I agree with the landlord although it kinda depends how much money he is asking for.....he is entitled to expect you to pay rent until 30th December 2011. Sounds to me that what he's asking you for is considerably less than the rent untill 30th December. So I'm left with the impression that you have been offered an attractive deal. Of course you could make a fuss and end up paying the rent insead.....but I wouldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayk88 Posted October 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 I see where you are coming from but to me it reads we need to give 2 months notice to leave at end of 6 months tenancy. (Poor grammar really to be honest) The landlord agreed in writing that I could leave if I found a replacement tenant, which I have, so why he has now turn't round and said I need to pay charge is where it is confusing me. How can I check if he has protected the deposit? The new tenant has even moved in. I made sure the landlord wasn't out of pocket with me leaving but he is now leaving me out of pocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richlist Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 I see where you are coming from but to me it reads we need to give 2 months notice to leave at end of 6 months tenancy. (Poor grammar really to be honest) Thats always the problem with break clauses.....95% of them are poorly drafted. I disagree with you .....I genuinely believe the wording of yours clearly allows for termination at 8 months not 6 months. How can I check if he has protected the deposit? Well, start by asking him. If there is an agent ask them. The landlord agreed in writing that I could leave if I found a replacement tenant, which I have, so why he has now turn't round and said I need to pay charge is where it is confusing me. If the deposit is protected, its return is not ultimately his decision its up to the protection company. If you have written proof of the landlords agreement then that should help sway their decision in your favour. If its not protected your landlord is in breach of regulations and its him who is in the wrong so you should get your deposit back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grampa Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 Does your landlord live in the property also????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayk88 Posted October 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 I have offered to pay half of his proposed charges, However I still think this is disgusting due to him agreeing that I could leave once I had found a replacement tenant. I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on the terms of the contract, though that is sort of out of the window due to his agreement to let me leave early. He is charging us for His time to write the contract, his solicitor to look over the contract and travel to see new tenant (Which he didn't come down to do initially he came to do work on the garden) I might go to citizens advice if he doesn't take the offer due to him charging us for fees that a liable to him as a landlord, I wouldn't have taken the new house if he had said I can't let you go till December but he didn't say that he said we could go once replacement tenants are in, I don't think I would have gone either, if he had said we would be liable to pay his fees. Grampa, The Landlord Doesn't live in no, He lives quiet a way away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melboy Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 You can see where this heading......Landlord hasn't protected the deposit? I will be interested to see if this the case in question. Mel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayk88 Posted October 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 I think so too, I haven't heard from the landlord but I have searched on TDS, DPS and My Deposits and I haven't come on on any of them. Bit worried now, we don't have any notification for the deposit being protected so I don't know if I have done something wrong for not chasing him for the proof at the beginning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas@FiveTrees Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 My understanding is that the onus is on the landlord to protect the deposit, not on you to ensure he has protected it. This link may be useful (if you haven't seen it already). http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/HomeAndCommunity/Privaterenting/Problemsanddisputes/DG_189243 The tenant must be made aware of the details of the deposit protection, but I do not know if you not asking at the beginning is a contributory factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richlist Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 The tenant must be made aware of the details of the deposit protection, but I do not know if you not asking at the beginning is a contributory factor. Its not in terms of liability and won't affect any legal claim on the landlord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richlist Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 He is charging us for His time to write the contract, He is definitely NOT allowed to charge for HIS time working on HIS business....a mistake often made but which is totally illegal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayk88 Posted October 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 Ok well that makes that part about his time a bit clearer. If he hasn't placed my deposit in a Authorised protection scheme does this invalidate my tenancy agreement? I'm not trying to get my landlord into trouble but it seems to me that he has broken the law and my contract and I was totally unaware of it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayk88 Posted October 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 If we didn't receive the information about our deposit being protected within the 14 days does that invalidate the agreement? by law? Or what does it mean from our side if he didn't give it to us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richlist Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 It means your landlord is in breach of the deposit protection rules. Who cares ? Well, I don't personally & neither will the majority of the general public & your landlord probably isn't very concerned. The point is that you are virtually the only person who can/ would take any action against the landlord. In your shoes I'd do the following: 1. Establish that the deposit hasn't been protected/ that your landlord is holding it. 2. Print of the deposit protection rules and penalties for non compliance & forward it with a covering letter to the landlord asking for the return of the deposit in full. 3. Hope he returns deposit to you. 4. When he doesn't refund the deposit.....take action in the county court for its recovery. You will probably win the deposit refund. 5. Expect the landlord to counter claim for his expenses because you terminated the contract early. You will probably have to pay this money unless you have evidence that the landlord agreed not to chage you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayk88 Posted October 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 Ok, he's just emailed and explained he has the paperwork at home and will send it over which is too late! He's also said in the email that he thinks that all the deposits (Im in a shared house) are all in one pot with DPS! Can he do this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richlist Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 You said in your first post that the rooms were let on separate AST's. Is this an HMO ? Is it licenced ? How many rooms are individually let ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayk88 Posted October 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 There are 3 rooms individual let at different prices. I'm unsure as to what a HMO is and license so couldn't tell you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim55 Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 Hi, i was reading this and the same thing has happened to me (the deposit that is). Last week i found out about the Deposit Protection Scheme when a friend moved house and talked to me about it, i have checked with my landlord (who i have been a tenant of for just over a year now) and he has not paid the deposit into the DPS. I'd never heard of the DPS before this, and this is the first tenancy i've had. Does this automatically invalidate the assured shorthold tenancy agreement between us or is it seen as a separate issue? After reading up on it on the DPS site it seems that the landlord has been pretty naughty with this, and there is plenty of advice on recovering my deposit, but no answers on if the ASH is invalidated by the landlord not fulfilling his DPS obligations. (Sorry for hijacking this thread, i will start a new one if you prefer.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayk88 Posted October 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 No don't worry hijack away, I need to answer a few questions so you may help in the process :-) I think it does invalidate your agreement with your landlord but the other members will no better than me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grampa Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 3 unrelated people living in the same property makes it a HMO and certain things need to be done such as electrical safety certs, warning signs in the communal areas, hard wired smoke alarms etc. If the council get involved it could cost him a bit of dosh and if the deposit isnt protected a lot more also.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richlist Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 Does this automatically invalidate the assured shorthold tenancy agreement between us or is it seen as a separate issue? No it doesn't invalidate the AST.........but it means: a) The landlord cannot issue a valid S21 notice to regain possession of the property until the deposit has been protected. b) Tenants can make a claim against the landlord for compensation of X3 times the deposit......but only through the main courts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grampa Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 Also an unlicensed HMO means a section 21 CAN NOT BE USED EITHER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim55 Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 Does this automatically invalidate the assured shorthold tenancy agreement between us or is it seen as a separate issue? No it doesn't invalidate the AST.........but it means: a) The landlord cannot issue a valid S21 notice to regain possession of the property until the deposit has been protected. b) Tenants can make a claim against the landlord for compensation of X3 times the deposit......but only through the main courts. Ok, thanks Richlist. I was under the impression that the compensation for non-deposit protection was pursued through the small claims court? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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