LLAW96 Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 Speak to the listing section of the court and ask if the matter can be put back before a judge for an earlier date, complete a form N244 and pay the appropriate fee. I do not hold out much hope though as many county court offices are running on a part time basis between July and September this year. Apart from this the matter is in the lap of the gods. For the record, if you had of let shelter take you to court you would have faced more than a £1000.00 fine. Your tenant would have applied for legal aid and lodged a civil claim for an injunction, damages, aggravated damages and damages under s.28 Housing Act 1988. You would have also ended up with a large legal bill too(yours and your tenants). The shame here is that you did not treat the property as abandoned and entered peacefully having serve a notice to quit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axil23 Posted July 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 Well got the hearing in 4 weeks. Was wondering if I should take a translator myself to the court this time around or will that not be required as he has been given 8 weeks to find one. I could take it myself to be on the safe side but then that's an added cost if not required. In the future though I am always taking one for any foreign T's. Would any one know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carryon Regardless Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 It gets even more silly if we start providing specialists for the other side. I can see advantage of you taking your own Judge though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melboy Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 Meanwhile Axil 23 write to Grant Shapps Government housing minister with your whole sorry story. Lots of landlords are being advised to do this now as this is the only way to get things changed for the better. Good luck Mel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richlist Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 Wouldn't existing options such as taking rent guarantee insurance or a home owning guarantor reduce the losses or even the risk of this situation occouring in the first place ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axil23 Posted October 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 My guess is that you are going tobe stuck with your tenants until at least October. Almost.... Long story short they turned up again without a translator but the judge saw through them and gave them 14 days. After they moved I found out that what ever was causing their HB claim to be held back had been done and luckily got the claim through which was paid directly to me. Problem is that the Housing benefit was awarded at say 100pw and my rental agreement was for 80pw. Now I got a letter from Shelter that they want the excess rent repaid. Would anyone know what all I can deduct before handing the money back over? Court case charges? Lawyer fees? Interest? Carpets needed to be changed, beds were bed bug infested and had to be dumped, curtains were missing, Boiler needed £250 repair work done which was due to their negligence and I can prove that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mortitia Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 Why have Shelter written to you - how do they come into it? I would take a good long time reply. Mortitia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carryon Regardless Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 Just because Shelter make statements doesn't mean it's applicable. To prevaricate I would request, at some time later, for demonstrable authorisation to deal for the T in this matter. Or send me the money cos I say you should. All rents received, from or on behalf of the T, go against outstanding balance. A statement would show rents due with dates, and monies received with dates. This produces a resultant balance + or -. HB have made payments, although they state that they are paid for specific periods (and of course it is dictated that we accept this) it rarely complies with our contracted payments as per AST. When very necessary I would only demonstrate balance by reference to contracted payments. Further HB will claim any overpayments from you, if you have given such as you (or Shelter) perceive to be overpayments to another you have made a gift, HB will still want theirs from you. Silly Shelter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grampa Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 Shelter work on the tenants behalf and i wouldn't send them anything unless you have to. Any housing benefit you receive as long as the dates it relate to full within the period the tenant was living in the property can be used for rent arrears. My experience of Shelter is that their only motive is to screw over the landlord and get the tenants arrears wiped off or get a possession order struck out on a technicality regardless of what the tenant is like or has done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axil23 Posted October 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 Shelter work on the tenants behalf and i wouldn't send them anything unless you have to. Any housing benefit you receive as long as the dates it relate to full within the period the tenant was living in the property can be used for rent arrears. My experience of Shelter is that their only motive is to screw over the landlord and get the tenants arrears wiped off or get a possession order struck out on a technicality regardless of what the tenant is like or has done. Thanks for the quick replies all. Ok so if this goes on any further what all can I build into the arrears? The cost of the court case? The point is very valid, if for any reason the council come back for any money they will want it from me. Try getting it out from the T then huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grampa Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 All councils work slightly differant though the rules and regs are the same. Some councils are a lot more agressive in trying to recover over payments from landlords than others. I have a good relationship with mine and they no longer try to recover from me or my landlords unless the payment is for a period after the tenant vacated for which there is no defence. If the council try to reclaim from you, fight your corner and read up on the council rules and regs. How much you can claim from the tenant (collecting is a differant matter) may depend on how well written your tenancy agreement is. Mine cover for virtually everything. Trenners who posts on here is very knowledgeble on HB and may add to the discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axil23 Posted October 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 What I meant by how much I can claim is that if I have received 20 pounds extra a week in Housing benefit and the T now claims 500 of it back through Shelter. What expenses can I claim to show Shelter that the Tenant is not owed any money. Court costs is one I guess, he broke the boiler which cost me £300 to get fixed and I can get proof that it was his fault. Can I claim that? I know I can't get any more out of him but its just in case Shelter threaten me with further action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest caravanj Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 What I meant by how much I can claim is that if I have received 20 pounds extra a week in Housing benefit and the T now claims 500 of it back through Shelter. What expenses can I claim to show Shelter that the Tenant is not owed any money. Court costs is one I guess, he broke the boiler which cost me £300 to get fixed and I can get proof that it was his fault. Can I claim that? I know I can't get any more out of him but its just in case Shelter threaten me with further action. I think what's already been said, & I agree, is that you don't have to reply to Shelter or enter into any communication whatsoever. Shelter is a charity & has no statutory power to get involved in an HB dispute which a statutory payment. Shelter can do nothing except advise a T & represent them in court etc if the T asks them to. In short, under no circumstances reply to Shelter or even acknowledge receipt of their letters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carryon Regardless Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 Shelter use a solicitor, not 100% sure but, I believe that they aren't retained and will cost them for involvement. Shelter are funded part by public funding and part by voluntary donation. They will have too exercise caution in how they use these funds, that is not to wilfully waste on a pointless case. Their case workers, again I believe, will in the main be getting legal experience for their later real career. They will enjoy the practice, on us, in hope of winning over those that aren't aware, as a solicitor might do for their client. Be aware the case worker will be deceitful in acting for his 'client', this isn't an attempt at creating justice but more aiming to create advantage for their client and gain browny points for their CV. Their mission statement reads well their actions are other. A court will give benefit to the case worker who may be acting as a 'lay person' on the day. A judge will respect this peson who is trying to break into the legal arena and this is a stepping stone, there will be effective encouragement. Ignoring them, no problem for them as they enjoy the practice. They have no more authority than I in asking for information so no entitlement to it, but they will use information gained, and not to your advantage. I would play a professional game, with such responses as "I have been advised to enquire as to what entitlement you have to the information you request". But don't rush, keep your effort to a minimum but maximise theirs, or more importantly the T's, as the lazy gits they invariably are they will fail to keep up the effort. They are happy that someone on a white horse do it all, prevent that be creating need for reference back to the T and 'specific and relevant' information from them. Be careful not to look awkward but to look correct in being sure T's are dotted and I's are crossed. At a later date being awkward might look bad in court but you don't have to jump because they say so. The ultimate is to say that you have contract with the HB and have only accepted funds as they deem are correct to be made in response to a claim not made by you. If HB have issue it is for them to resolve with you. If the T has issue it is for him to resolve with them. I can't see why any payment made by HB to you becomes your responsibility to pass to a T. Any overpayment should be returned to HB, but you no not have a positive balance on the rental account Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grampa Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 Normally any overpayment goes back to the council not the the tenant. I wonder if this over payment has something to do with the benefit rules which stated if a tenant found a property under the going (LHA) rate any excess upto 15 or 20 quid per week they could keep. If so i see no reason why it cant be used for any rent arrears or cost the tenant legally owes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axil23 Posted October 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 Thank you all. Will keep you posted on what happens next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axil23 Posted October 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 So as we expected I got the same email as a letter. What do you all suggest I do now? Shall I respond? If so what with? Shall I ask first what authority they have to act on behalf of the T. I was calculating roughly this is what the T owes me. £200 court fees £80 Taxi costs for Court cases £300 New Carpets £200 Locks changed 4 times due to T's fault. £400 Boiler repair work due to misuse by T. £150 Cleaning charges including a visit by pest control. Shall I include this in the letter? That more or less means that he owes me money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grampa Posted October 26, 2011 Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 I would still take no notice until you got a letter before action. But any funds received (direct from the council) as long as it relates to the periods the tenant lived at the property you should be able to use to wards rents owed. Any of the below you will have to prove the tenant is responsible for if goes to court. £200 court fees £80 Taxi costs for Court cases £300 New Carpets £200 Locks changed 4 times due to T's fault. £400 Boiler repair work due to misuse by T. £150 Cleaning charges including a visit by pest control. But if you do reply ask under what legal basis they are demanding payment from you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axil23 Posted October 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 I would still take no notice until you got a letter before action. But any funds received (direct from the council) as long as it relates to the periods the tenant lived at the property you should be able to use to wards rents owed. Any of the below you will have to prove the tenant is responsible for if goes to court. £200 court fees £80 Taxi costs for Court cases £300 New Carpets £200 Locks changed 4 times due to T's fault. £400 Boiler repair work due to misuse by T. £150 Cleaning charges including a visit by pest control. But if you do reply ask under what legal basis they are demanding payment from you. Ok thanks. I can prove the £80 taxi charges as I have reciepts, Carpets I took photos of when I took back the house, Locks I have reciepts for too. Boiler work I have a letter from the Corgi Engineer that it was misuse that caused it. Pest control charges I also have a bill for and also have a letter from the council that the T is responsible for them as they brought them in with them. Can it really go to court? I would have thought that the money is given to me by HB so if anything they can ask for it back at any time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest caravanj Posted October 27, 2011 Report Share Posted October 27, 2011 Ok thanks. I can prove the £80 taxi charges as I have reciepts, Carpets I took photos of when I took back the house, Locks I have reciepts for too. Boiler work I have a letter from the Corgi Engineer that it was misuse that caused it. Pest control charges I also have a bill for and also have a letter from the council that the T is responsible for them as they brought them in with them. Can it really go to court? I would have thought that the money is given to me by HB so if anything they can ask for it back at any time. Basically a person can sue for almost anything but since you've got all your written independent expert evidence I can't see how your T can win. Any overpayment of HB paid to you has to be claimed back by the relevant local authority. Your HB dealings are with the LA & nobody else. Personally I'd tell Shelter to 'do one' ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axil23 Posted October 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2011 Basically a person can sue for almost anything but since you've got all your written independent expert evidence I can't see how your T can win. Any overpayment of HB paid to you has to be claimed back by the relevant local authority. Your HB dealings are with the LA & nobody else. Personally I'd tell Shelter to 'do one' ! Thanks for the advice. Will keep you all posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carryon Regardless Posted October 27, 2011 Report Share Posted October 27, 2011 It's not unreasonable for the court to resolve this, it's what they're there for - in theory. It's early days yet anyway, and court date deferrals are always possible while you seek advice, do research, or take the cat for a new wooden leg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axil23 Posted November 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 Update - I was out of office but apparently the council has been on the phone and they are asking for the over payment to be refunded as that was not part of the rent and was classed as his allowance. Anyway they are gonna call back so I wanna be prepared. Can I still deduct court costs and other costs if the council gets involved? Its around a £1000 that I assume that they want back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carryon Regardless Posted November 8, 2011 Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 I think we've to be careful not to get confused by 'allowance', it's still HB on behalf of the T I assume. It's well worth negotiating with the 'HB ' for some consideration, but we accept direct payments on the understanding that over payments will be refunded. At least you haven't refunded to the T as now you would be expected to pay again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axil23 Posted November 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 I think we've to be careful not to get confused by 'allowance', it's still HB on behalf of the T I assume. It's well worth negotiating with the 'HB ' for some consideration, but we accept direct payments on the understanding that over payments will be refunded. At least you haven't refunded to the T as now you would be expected to pay again. Major confusion here! No one called back and the person who answered the phone wasn't sure if it was the council or the persons representative from some other company (shleter?) Anyway will update here as soon as I get a follow up call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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