Mortitia Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 I have just had a sleepless night wondering if I am just about to pay too much for fuseboard changes at 2 properties. Both are Barratt houses built in 1980ish but with old type pull out fuses. On one house now vacant my builder noticed that one fuse had a really thick piece of wire put across it (by the last tenant) so I decided to get my usual man and son in to change to a modern unit. Cost £475 on one and £425 on the other. He wanted to charge me another £200 each house for a certificate. I declined that part. What is going on here? He has done odd stuff for me for years at a reasonable rate so I was really shocked (excuse the pun). What is everyone else's experience of new fuseboards and do we really need these expnsive certificates? Mortitia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selkirk Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 Hi I had one done, the item did cost about £230 on it's own, it has RDS and trip switches etc, as regards an electric cert that sounds about right too, although not complusory it's adviseable. I don't think you are being ripped off personally but I'm sure someone will come up with a cheaper alternative. cheers Selkirk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gee Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 Hi Morticia The certificate is likely to be a periodic inspection. As I understand it, if the inspecting electrician if he was not the original installer is obliged to physically examine most if not all connections. ie remove sockets and ceiling roses etc as well as testing the circuits. This obviously is quite time consuming especially if the house is occupied and if it takes a day by the time the electrician has paid his royalty to his governing body for the right to issue a certificate then £200 is perhaps OK. I have recently received a quote for a rewire. The electrician told me RCD boards ranged from about £60 to £120 depending on spec, however the cost you have been quoted seems exhorbitant to me. I think the going rate in the Northwest is about £20 an hour for a big job however for a smaller job like yours they would charge a higher price per hour to cover travelling etc. Obviously they charge more in London. Best get a few more quotes, there are alot of hungry electricians out there! Cheers Gee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mortitia Posted March 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 Thanks guys for that quick response of 2 differing views. This work was done in Dorset. Unfortunately maybe - eletrician has done the work so I will have to pay up but that will teach me not to always trust tradesmen I have used before and get 3 quotes. Any more replies welcome as we can all learn something from this one and I am amazed at the variation in price. Mortitia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky Posted March 21, 2009 Report Share Posted March 21, 2009 A new board with an RCD does'nt cost more than £120 max to purchase, i would never charge a customer more than £200 to change the board. Make sure your spark is part P registered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky Posted March 21, 2009 Report Share Posted March 21, 2009 To totally rewire a house the costs can be from £2000-£3500 depending on the size of the house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPC266 Posted March 21, 2009 Report Share Posted March 21, 2009 Can i clarify the position of providing Certification on any Electrical work,Firstly the Cert is not an optional extra that requires additional payments.Any Installation work within your property will require an Installation Certificate,no if's or but's and any electrical Contractor who tells you differently walk away from.The second point is a Periodic Inspection Report,its not a certificate unless it states Satisfactory on the first page,its a report of the condition of Installation.To many Landlords and local Authoritys do not understand this when recieving a report.I am an NICEIC inspection Engineer who all to often have to explain this to the Electricians i inspect,so its no wonder that the general public get confused. I can also clarify that the Electrical Regulations are not retrospective so for example if you have a property that was built under old regulations and you have a Periodic Inspection carried out under the latest regulations do not be hoodwinked into believing that it requires more RCD,s in the property,This would only be the case when installing a new circuit etc,it would simply be what is called a code 4 which states simply it does not comply with todays regulations this would not stop it being given a Satisfactory condition report. Sorry to get Technical,but all to often this Important issue is hidden regarding the legal requirements of Electrical Contractors within the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melboy Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 Just to support the comments above.............. Provided your existing fuse board was correctly installed and safe to operate then there was absolutely no reason to upgrade at all. I have had a fully qualified sparky look at my properties and I was charged £50 for a condition report plus a certificate which as far as I am concerned fulfilled my Landlords obligations regarding the current electrical safety regulations for rented properties. I have fuse boards as well and they were checked out for correct fuse wire rating being fitted. Mel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkJ Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 to take this onto a slight tangent - as a rookie landlord - what is the legal requirement regarding electrical certs? I know a gas cert and now a EPC, are obligatory. I was under the impression that an electrical one wasn't oblig but seen as 'good practise'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
web2dude Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 Actually, looking at your original info, it doesn't seem highly extortionate if materials are included. The circuit board would be around £100. It's a few hours work and then he has to test everything. There may be faulty wires that need replacing etc. If he's including a test certificate, it's probably not too bad. I know in London it's still difficult to get someone to look at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melboy Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 to take this onto a slight tangent - as a rookie landlord - what is the legal requirement regarding electrical certs? I know a gas cert and now a EPC, are obligatory. I was under the impression that an electrical one wasn't oblig but seen as 'good practise'. It is not mandatory....yet....for a whole property electrical certificate however most professional landlords do have this carried out to ensure that their rented property meets a certain standard regarding electrical safety for their tenant. It is mandatory for portable appliances to have a register and be certificated if you have them in your property and that will include washing machines (essential) fridges etc. etc. Mel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeJP Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 I was quoted £345 to have one fitted. I had just paid £104 for the certificate. Which was failed because of the box. I trained as an electrician so went out yesterday and bought a new box 17th edit regs compliant, for £97. Included 10 double sockets and 5 Lampholders in the box. Going to fit it tomorrow. £200 for certificate. Robbery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melboy Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 Screwfix! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPC266 Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 MikeJP,Can i ask how are you going to Certificate this work ? To comply you must have Installation paperwork,Say God forbid your property caught fire and HSE had to get involved they would want to see your Qualifications and the Paperwork for the Installation.I do not doubt your ability to put it in,but as with most cases its the Certificate thats the Important part. HSE would not be intrested in your ability,they only deal in facts,and think about this your Insurance would be useless against a claim as no paperwork would be available. Its an intresting thought isn't it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melboy Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 Same as the Gas Laws......"any gas boiler may be installed by a competent person". However, if you are paid or accept payment by anyone to install a gas boiler in their property then you must be a registered gas installer and fully qualified to undertake that work ....and quite rightly so. Mike JP has electrical knowledge as he trained as an electrician and is installing his own equipment in his own property. Mel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPC266 Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 Melboy,I beg to differ on the Electrical side as it comes under part P of the building regs,Own property or not it has to have a Certificate. As for the Gas are you saying that as long as you are competent and you own your own property you can install a gas system.Thats a new one on me,but i am not up on the gas side of the industry so i will take you at your word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeJP Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 MikeJP,Can i ask how are you going to Certificate this work ? To comply you must have Installation paperwork,Say God forbid your property caught fire and HSE had to get involved they would want to see your Qualifications and the Paperwork for the Installation.I do not doubt your ability to put it in,but as with most cases its the Certificate thats the Important part. HSE would not be intrested in your ability,they only deal in facts,and think about this your Insurance would be useless against a claim as no paperwork would be available. Its an intresting thought isn't it. I agree. I trained as an electrician, I am up to date with current regulations, ( made a point of it, I have worked mainly as a service engineer, but kept up to date with the regs, But Unfortunately, I have not done part P) Time was the factor.(Not enough of it). ( listed under things to be done). (After I get part P certificate, I will be able to certify my own work. Until then.) After I do the work, I can get someone to check it. A lot cheaper than them, doing the work. PLUS as I know the regs, I know if they are trying to pull a fast one. (Which most of them do) Plus not all electrical work needs to be checked. You need to know what. My service is available, if any interested parties. NE England Totally separate ( well sort of) Yrs ago, I went into a certified installation. because of a fault. day after install.( a restruant) a light circuit was not working. Installers still on site. I found the fuse bridged by metal foil. DUH! Call the fire brigade. Just to mention Safety Is the main consideration. BUT I find with all the regs these days. A lot of companies are making the most of it. Over charging etc etc. A lot of rouges out there, all trying to do us. We all need to stick together. The law tends towards the tenant. What does it matter that it is our property. Sorry for going on. I could go on, and on, but I will not. I know you all feel the same. Safety first always. BUT Why should others benifit from us. One thing paying tax, but we now have to pay for. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Plus the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeJP Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 Good guess melboy Correct. 10 brownie points Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melboy Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 Melboy,I beg to differ on the Electrical side as it comes under part P of the building regs,Own property or not it has to have a Certificate. As for the Gas are you saying that as long as you are competent and you own your own property you can install a gas system.Thats a new one on me,but i am not up on the gas side of the industry so i will take you at your word. Yes, but who is going to check his work out? He is not going to declare the change-over to the building inspector. Yes, sadly any competent person can work on gas BUT if it goes wrong and your not really a competent person and you have no insurance cover and you kill someone then the full force of the law will fall on you AND like I said you musn't receive any payment for gas work done from a third party. We had a house blow up here in Swindon 2 years ago from yet another person who thought gas work was simple and that 5 years training counts for nothing but sadly he didn't blow up his own house he destroyed his next door neighbour's house. It cost him everything he owned and he was made unemployed and was forced to go bankrupt. The moral of the story is don't risk messing around with gas. There is a Landlord right now serving 5 years for fixing his own gas boiler and killing a student with CO poisening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeJP Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 Electrical regulations, basically, all installations that change the wiring must be tested. I can replace a socket, with a new socket, of same specification. NO test needed IF I add a socket, a test to part P is required. If I do any work, other than replacing like for like. A test is required. Although I trained as an electrician, some one else with part P has to test my installation. I get a certificate. With GAS. different Only competent persons are allowed to work on gas installations. Electric, any one can change a socket, etc. What is competent? I am more that competent, BUT I would never stop there. I have put gas pipes in, I pressure tested to several Bar. Only needs to the millibars. I then get a registered person in to make final connections. UNTIL the final connections are made, it is just a pipe run. The registered person checks the pipe work, to ensure that it is OK, then connects the ends. Certificate given. What is it they say. Do not try this at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPC266 Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 Thats very interesting on the gas side i had no idea.Being up on the electrical testing and regulations i assumed the gas side of the industry was the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPC266 Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 Dare i ask who decides the level of copetency ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melboy Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 Dare i ask who decides the level of copetency ? That's the million dollar question............... Make no mistake though if you cock it up your property insurance will be invalid. .........and if you accept payment for any work and death or injury or damage is a result of your work then you will be liable for legal action.....this happens everyday and the results can be read in the newspapers. Professional? doesn't matter whether you are pulling teeth or having gas work done you pay for a professional service and that means being fully qualified to undertake the work... being insured in case things go wrong...we have £5million of public liability insurance....when did you last ask to see that from your tradesmen working on your property? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geraldr26 Posted April 4, 2009 Report Share Posted April 4, 2009 I agree. I trained as an electrician, I am up to date with current regulations, ( made a point of it, I have worked mainly as a service engineer, but kept up to date with the regs, But Unfortunately, I have not done part P) Time was the factor.(Not enough of it). ( listed under things to be done). (After I get part P certificate, I will be able to certify my own work. Until then.) After I do the work, I can get someone to check it. A lot cheaper than them, doing the work. PLUS as I know the regs, I know if they are trying to pull a fast one. (Which most of them do) Plus not all electrical work needs to be checked. You need to know what. My service is available, if any interested parties. NE England Totally separate ( well sort of) Yrs ago, I went into a certified installation. because of a fault. day after install.( a restruant) a light circuit was not working. Installers still on site. I found the fuse bridged by metal foil. DUH! Call the fire brigade. Just to mention Safety Is the main consideration. BUT I find with all the regs these days. A lot of companies are making the most of it. Over charging etc etc. A lot of rouges out there, all trying to do us. We all need to stick together. The law tends towards the tenant. What does it matter that it is our property. Sorry for going on. I could go on, and on, but I will not. I know you all feel the same. Safety first always. BUT Why should others benifit from us. One thing paying tax, but we now have to pay for. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Plus the rest. PART P of the building regulations was introduced to prevent non competant people from carrying out electrical installation work, the person doing the installation work should also be competant to certify their work, whether it be minor works certificate, electrical installation certificate or Periodic inspection report, under part p there is no third party inspection and testing, if the person is competant by either qualification or member of a governing body or scheme and so PART P compliant, gedr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPC266 Posted April 5, 2009 Report Share Posted April 5, 2009 Thats correct Gedr,however there is nothing to stop him notifying the installation to his local building control officer.You do not have to be affiliated to any of the certified bodies such as ourselves (NICEIC) or ECA etc.It just means you pay an additional fee. Many electrical contractors have been members of the part P scheme since it came into force but to date some 35% have never notified a single job.Now either they have no work or choose to carry on breaking the law.Many i visit choose to show me the installation of their choice which is ok with me but its the jobs they do not show me that is the worry.I assume they have no paperwork to give to the customer either.Its the system thats to blame not the contractor.The only way to stop all this is to incorporate all electrical paperwork into the HIPS pack as was originally planned but the government backed off at the last minute due to lack of experienced people within the housing market to know what they were looking for (commonly known as surveyors). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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