morgan Posted August 7, 2008 Report Share Posted August 7, 2008 Surely I'm not the only landlord who has a long term tennant but would be better off on the new Local Housing Allowance system of payments. I was very relieved that I would not have to be paid by my tennants after they received the money from the dss as in the LHA system. Sound a bit scary really but its something i would now welcome as i need to increase the rent ( ive only increased it once in 12 years) But dont want to be getting into collecting it from them with all the problems of arrears etc. I know there would need to be a 7 day break in their claim to get onto the new system but any advice on how would be welcome. I dont want new tennants as they are as good as gold Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trenners Posted August 7, 2008 Report Share Posted August 7, 2008 Hi Morgan, I don't think the new LHA legislation was thoroughly thought through before implementation and the switch from the old HB system (where the landlord received the rent defined by the rent officer) to the new LHA system (where the tenant receives the HB defined by the LHA officer) is not easy to achieve. Technically, you can break the Housing Benefit claim for a 7 day period then your tenant can re-apply for LHA (thereby switching from the old system to the new) but you need to be very careful about this for a number of reasons :- 1) The HB assessor will want to understand why the claim has been broken. They will suspend the LHA and the HB claim and perform detailed analysis. I don't think it is valid for the tenant to state that the claim was broken to switch from HB to LHA as the legislation make no provision for this. 2) You will not receive any rent for the period of time that the claim is broken (ie: 7 days). 3) It is probable, after the 7 day break, that the HB assessor will simply re-instate the old claim because no circumstances have changed (ie: same landlord, same tenant, same address). If you want to keep the same tenants and increase the rent then you will need to serve a Section 13(2) notice and this will need to be referred back to the rent officer for him to judge whether the rent increase is fair or not. The only way I have found to easily switch from the old to the new (system) is to evict the existing tenant. I specifically asked my local rent officer this question and his suggestion was to move all of my tenants into a different address thereby creating new LHA claims ! Good Luck, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgan Posted August 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2008 Thanks Mark for your Thoughts. What if they moved out on paper ( I can provide an address of another house if req ) and then moved back after say 2 weeks as the house was not suitable. They would do this if I asked . Would this work?. I dont think this would affect their child benefit ( Big family) What do you think. Morgan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Dewsberry Posted August 8, 2008 Report Share Posted August 8, 2008 I think that if this is done "on paper" only ...that you leave yourself wide open to a fraud charge !!!!! The Rodent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trenners Posted August 8, 2008 Report Share Posted August 8, 2008 Hi Morgan, The problem is that if you break the HB claim in any way then the whole claim has to be re-submitted and re-assessed. The claimant will need to provide all of the "proofs" that were sent into the DSS assessor when the claim was first assessed. If not all of the proofs are provided then the claim will remain suspended until the tenant complies. Also ... if you end up with an ackward assessor - they might start asking loads and loads of extra questions (to the tenant) and whilst all this lot is getting sorted out then you aren't going to get any rent at all! I am looking at ways to try and switch my tenants from HB to LHA but, to be honest, I haven't found a straightforward way yet and I am currently managing 150 DSS tenancies! Good luck, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J4L Posted August 9, 2008 Report Share Posted August 9, 2008 "( ive only increased it once in 12 years)" Another example of a greedy LL. I've had a van load of LL's who are wanting to do this because the greed element that this society has nurtured is becoming ridiculous. How come you have been happy for 12 years and all of a sudden because next door is getting more than you, you attempt to "get what you can" using any method you can!! You go for the "on paper route" as you suggested and I hope you get caught. The world of letting could do without people like you. I've got a scenario for you, let's say that the Tenant is 'entitled' to a 3 bedroom house and receives that from HB but chooses to move into your 2 bedroom property. Are you going to DEMAND they give it all to you?? Probably!! haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Dewsberry Posted August 9, 2008 Report Share Posted August 9, 2008 "( ive only increased it once in 12 years)" Another example of a greedy LL. I've had a van load of LL's who are wanting to do this because the greed element that this society has nurtured is becoming ridiculous. How come you have been happy for 12 years and all of a sudden because next door is getting more than you, you attempt to "get what you can" using any method you can!! You go for the "on paper route" as you suggested and I hope you get caught. The world of letting could do without people like you. I've got a scenario for you, let's say that the Tenant is 'entitled' to a 3 bedroom house and receives that from HB but chooses to move into your 2 bedroom property. Are you going to DEMAND they give it all to you?? Probably!! haha. A bit small minded Gareth ..dont you think ? 12 years with 1 rent increase is utterly ridiculous .....inflation running at average of 3% means to stand still Rnt should have been increased by at least this every year ............so effectively LL has given T a REDUCTION of 3% per year in real terms so nothing greedy about it whatsoever ..... If you feel so strongly about it wind back all your rents for your LL and suggest they charge that as rent ...and see how many LL you keep ?? Market forces will always dictate rent ....If T doesn't like it they can always go and live somewhere else can't they ? Re: 2/3 bed rent ......as above market price/ negotiated to what T is happy to pay ...whether that be up OR down... The Rodent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgan Posted August 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2008 A bit small minded Gareth ..dont you think ? 12 years with 1 rent increase is utterly ridiculous .....inflation running at average of 3% means to stand still Rnt should have been increased by at least this every year ............so effectively LL has given T a REDUCTION of 3% per year in real terms so nothing greedy about it whatsoever ..... If you feel so strongly about it wind back all your rents for your LL and suggest they charge that as rent ...and see how many LL you keep ?? Market forces will always dictate rent ....If T doesn't like it they can always go and live somewhere else can't they ? The Rodent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Dewsberry Posted August 9, 2008 Report Share Posted August 9, 2008 ??????????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Dewsberry Posted August 9, 2008 Report Share Posted August 9, 2008 "( ive only increased it once in 12 years)" Another example of a greedy LL. We will all assume, Gareth that for the next 12 years you will be refusing a payrise and not increasing your fees or income in anyway whatsoever....indeed to do anything other than lose 3% pa will be considered Greedy ...........???????????? Common mate, get real! The Rodent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgan Posted August 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2008 Oops, sounds like i have upset someone. Is £280 a month for a 3 bed greedy. I dont ask for any extra money from my tennant because as ive said before, they are as good as gold and and a good tennant is more important than money.Having said that I'm feeling the pinch like a lot of people and if the rates worked out for LHA are deemed to be fare for new tennants.it seems strange that the councils will operate 2 systems with different rates. I am not running a buisiness like some but use my rent to help pay my own mortgage. Thank for your support Rodent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Dewsberry Posted August 9, 2008 Report Share Posted August 9, 2008 Hi Morgan £280 for a 3 bed is taking the Pxxx ....dont know which part of the uk you are in but that is ridiculously low........ In Cardiff LHA/HB will pay out "upto" around £600-650 for that .... i get £775 for a 3 bed 1st floor flat ! T is having your trousers down here .....go and ask 6 local agents how much they value similar props at ...rent .... Then get rent officer around to agree fair price as this MUST NOT continue ... Dont worry about j4l he is a charitable organisation learning the ropes !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now take cover 'cos, like Arnie... he'll be back ..............LOL Gareth ...let's be having you .................!!!! Trenners will hopefully be able to offer a fig for a 3 be as he deals with lots of hb/lha ...Mark ???? The Rodent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Dewsberry Posted August 9, 2008 Report Share Posted August 9, 2008 Note to ed/moderator The "clock" on here is 5mins fast as posts are going on 5mins before we get to the actul time stated as posting time .......... The Rodent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J4L Posted August 9, 2008 Report Share Posted August 9, 2008 Like good ole arnie I am here. "12 years with 1 rent increase is utterly ridiculous" i SO agree but who's fault is that, not mine, not the Tenants but the Landlords! Listen I'm not a 'charitable organisation' Simon, I'm making a nice living (thankyou very much) by giving a proper service for a proper price. Yes I'm learning the ropes but believe me I'm looking after (at the very least) THREE times the amount of properties that you are so I'm not doing that bad. This is from a business point of view. From a personal point of view I am a Landlord myself and because I knew/know of the LHA figures I didn't go in and up my Tenants rents just because I could get more! They are good Tenants and they pay on time and I have no problems so I'm happy! That's my decision. Back to business. Simon all your arguments are totally irrelevant to my question because I didn't say what you're insinuating. I asked "How come you have been happy for 12 years and all of a sudden . . . . . " Landlords set their rates at :- 1) What they think they are happy with 2) What they think the market will tolerate There's nothing wrong with increasing the rent annually, and I recommend 5% which is nearly in line with inflation so why has the LL done this only once in the last 12 years? Basically he's happy with his lot. Here we have a case of an inexerienced LL and he's been doing it for 12 years!! Need I say more? So this is not about increasing the rents over 12 years by an acceptable level but is about increasing it massively in a short space of time. He should have done that annually. I agree £280 for a 3 bed ANYWHERE is VERY low and yes does need an increase but to try and make it fall inline with the LHA figures JUST because you can, in my book, is pure greed when you've been happy with what you've had for TWELVE YEARS!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgan Posted August 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2008 I came on this site for advice and not a slanging match. I am gratefull for any advice. I think you misunderstand what I stated. Yes I have had 1 rent increase in 12 years but that was 3 years ago and not 12. My rent was based upon what I was told was the going rate from a letting agency 12 years ago and agreed with the dss. My increase was what the dss offered at the time. If I have been underpaid for years ,What is the problem with trying to catch up. As I have said, i dont want to charge a rent where my tennant has to pay the difference from HB and my rent. I have a scenario for you. A long term HB tennant leaves 1 of your properties. A new one comes in on the LHA system giving you an increase in rent. You of course will say No thanks , I dont want to be greedy. Sorry , coudnt resist. Yes I am inexperienced even after 12 years but the advice given by the Rodent is helpful. Morgan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Dewsberry Posted August 9, 2008 Report Share Posted August 9, 2008 Hi Morgan Welcome to the forum ! Hope you can make some use of it ..there are a lot of good guys on here who will give their opinion(as right or wrong as it may be....) on most issues ...!! We do get some very opposing views which can lead to some very childish threads but as pointed out before if everyone agreed the forum would become dull, boring and would not explore some very obtuse angles on any given situation .....altho i have to admit J4L and i do have sparing matches more frequently than others !!...but as Kenny would say "all in the best possible taste !" I am sure others will offer their opinion shortly .... The Rodent If you want to keep the same tenants and increase the rent then you will need to serve a Section 13(2) notice and this will need to be referred back to the rent officer for him to judge whether the rent increase is fair or not. Mark All slanging aside and to haul this back on to topic .....Mark has given the way forward ....initial rent fig to be "arrived at" using local market as reference ..........as i suggested ........ then off to your study and write 1000 times "I must not be greedy!............i must be as profitable as i can !".... haha!! The Rodent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J4L Posted August 9, 2008 Report Share Posted August 9, 2008 "I have a scenario for you. A long term HB tennant leaves 1 of your properties. A new one comes in on the LHA system giving you an increase in rent. You of course will say No thanks , I dont want to be greedy." Absolutely not. If it's there then you need to and can rightly take it but even three years is a long time to not review your rent. Can I ask what your figures are? You quoted £280, is that what they were or what they are/will be now? Simon!!! I wouldn't waste my time on replying to such an impish post. You should be ashamed of yourself at your age, you'll be getting the rulers out shortly!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgan Posted August 10, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2008 Hi £280 now, has been for 3 years. What is the correct methed of putting up the rent. Giving the figure to my tennant or the council. What is the figure the council is likely to agree on. The HBA for a 3 bed in my area is £495 with rates for chidrens ages etc just complicating the issue anyway. The HBA must be what they think is correct. Lets not go down the greedy path anymore, if the children and ages are counted the figure would be much higher. I Just would like a decent increase without any contributions from my tennants. Any chance of a sensible reply. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Dewsberry Posted August 10, 2008 Report Share Posted August 10, 2008 Hi Morgan You should ascertain what the going market rate is for the area ....it is unlikely, IMHO that HB/LHA will be prepared to pay/offer more than this .....generally i find around 10% less than market rate ....altho as always there are exceptions ... £495 for a 3 bed is cheap in my opinion but will of course depend on location, amenities etc Which area of this wonder isle is the prop located in ? You can call HB/LHA yourself and "discuss" ....but claim will need to involve T as well ...most councils have a LL liason team... I would have a chat and ask what the "likely" fig that they will offer is (all academic until rent officer has a look tho!) but will at least give you an idea of where you are going ... There are a few anomalies out there ; eg. 2 bed LHA is upto £550 for this area ........my city centre props fetch upto £695 ....so way off target But I have one particular 2 bed prop which is on the edge of a suburb which commands just £495-£550 ...so a better target to market to HB clients .....on paper........ The Rodent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgan Posted August 10, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2008 I think this subject has probably run its course. Thanks Rodent for your advise and i will follow it up. I will post what happens in the future. Thanks to J4L for ...er probably nothing. Morgan. ps, my property is in the north east of england. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J4L Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 Haha, Morgan you take things to heart to much. Mine is an opinion, you have them as we all do. My experience is in business and I'm highlighting what greed does to business people. Go with the experiences and advice of others, take the best, leave the rest and make your own decisions. No need to get bitter about it!! Remember! You came asking for advice not the other way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heebs Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 "( ive only increased it once in 12 years)" Another example of a greedy LL. I've had a van load of LL's who are wanting to do this because the greed element that this society has nurtured is becoming ridiculous. How come you have been happy for 12 years and all of a sudden because next door is getting more than you, you attempt to "get what you can" using any method you can!! You go for the "on paper route" as you suggested and I hope you get caught. The world of letting could do without people like you. I've got a scenario for you, let's say that the Tenant is 'entitled' to a 3 bedroom house and receives that from HB but chooses to move into your 2 bedroom property. Are you going to DEMAND they give it all to you?? Probably!! haha. What???...greedy if increasing once in 12years...are you serious...he is anything but greedy. I suggest the easiest thing would be to issue a new contract at a suitable 2008/2009 market rate of rent..tell your tenants to go to the council with new contract to explain their landlord has increased the rent at long last..you can find out the rent your tenants can achieve in your borough depending on the number of people in the family....go for the max rent achieveable..you deserve it for all the years youve lost out. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J4L Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 "you deserve it for all the years youve lost out." With respect heebs the LL's not lost out on anything because if he'd wanted to increase the rent every year he could've done. That was his choice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesrap Posted August 14, 2008 Report Share Posted August 14, 2008 LHA Was not designed to cover evryone. Onemust understand the regulation to recognise that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgan Posted October 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 Hi, I said i would report back with any news on what progress i have made . After all your good advice I decided to ring my local council and ask what was the correct procedure for increasing rent after only 2 increases in 12 years but not asking for a contribution from my tennant. I was advised to either ask the rental officer to asses my rent or for my tennant to ask to go onto the local housing allowance system. I did not think that this was possible without a change of circumstances but they said it was . HOW SIMPLE WAS THAT. Well not quite . MORE ADVICE REQ. They have been granted a Local Housing Allowance figure but the council letter says,As the rent you pay of £70 is less than the local housing allowance granted the benefit rules say the maximum you could get is the rent you are charged plus £15. £70 for me and £15 for my tennant. Brilliant, exactly the same as before. The advice they gave me was to increase my rent to the L H A. I have made progress, but what should I do next. Thanks Morgan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.