GPEL Posted July 7, 2008 Report Share Posted July 7, 2008 What you're saying is that you were untrained when you opened the operation and are running an unregulated business looking after what for many is their largest single investment. Perhaps put like this you can understand why so many are sceptical about letting agents and the self-hype of some, especially when they use a PO Box address and 0845 number, with no office address, often meaning it's in the shed at the bottom of the garden. Watch this space concerning legislation restricting rogue operations and poor service. Not that I'm accusing anyone here of that. As an aside, business owners telling me how good they are and how poor others are, carry's little weight as far as I'm concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Dewsberry Posted July 7, 2008 Report Share Posted July 7, 2008 Ding! Ding! Round 6 Seconds out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J4L Posted July 7, 2008 Report Share Posted July 7, 2008 What you're saying is that you were untrained when you opened the operation and are running an unregulated business looking after what for many is their largest single investment. Perhaps put like this you can understand why so many are sceptical about letting agents and the self-hype of some, especially when they use a PO Box address and 0845 number, with no office address, often meaning it's in the shed at the bottom of the garden. Watch this space concerning legislation restricting rogue operations and poor service. Not that I'm accusing anyone here of that. As an aside, business owners telling me how good they are and how poor others are, carry's little weight as far as I'm concerned. Yup i was 'untrained' (whatever that means) although i HAVE done courses!! (Dunno what that means to you) and yup we are 'unregulated' (whatever that means) see above posts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! People are sceptical about letting agents because of societal 'say so', and nothing else. I'm trying to change this and I think we're doing a good job of it. We have an 0845 number for future expansion, re the franchise, and a PO Box because of the same reason. PO Box numbers can be traced (very EASILY) to a forwarding address so we're not trying to hide anything, simply because we plan to franchise this off to separate areas and then wish to give each area a separate address. And no it's not at the bottom of the garden in the shed it's actually in a converted Tandem garage which is probably bigger than some of the rented houses that we let. Haha Simon (makes a change from me and you) ROUND 7!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J4L Posted July 7, 2008 Report Share Posted July 7, 2008 "Harsh but if you come on here with the big I Am, expect to be questioned." I agree but I haven't arrived with the BIG I AM perception, or at least I don't think I have. You've asked the ?'s and I've given the answers that I feel adequate. "If it looks like BS and smells like BS, chances are it's...!" Many times in life you would be correct but I can assure you that this isn't. Because of sceptics like you we struggle to open up franchises across the country, and that's business, and that's life. Once people KNOW we aren't full of BS then they will be flocking to our door. and the reason they KNOW?? Won't be because they have taken advise from people like you!! but they'll dip their toe in and 'realise' that the water ain't that bad actually!!!! And not all agents are the same!! But to my main point AGAIN (just in case you didn't get it) is that there's no body, regulated or not, for these people to guage their decision on at present, and untill they do then there's just CHOICE!! And you have it, it's your decision, and nobody can sway your decision apart from word of mouth, and I'm happy that we're sorted on that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPEL Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 I'm not anti-agent, far from it, nor am I anti-franchise. I am however anti industry-ignorance, self serving hype, blundering, poor levels of service and deceipt. It's not this forum you have to convince about the quality of your business. Good for your clients if you provide high levels of service. Unfortunately, it's now widely recognized in this sector that your route of entry also offers an open door to very many poor quality start-ups that don't do what it says on the box or website and continually louse things up for landlords and tenants. Regulated entry, stated service standard compliance and regular audits of the operation won't stop all problems but will go a long way to reducing them, restricting rogue traders and putting off the clowns who haven't a clue both at start-up and during operation. I'd have thought it was obvious what I meant by training courses; industry subjects might include: Inventories, Lettings and the Law, Handling deposits correctly, Property Manager needs and requirements, Knowing the Housing Act, Understanding tenancies, continual professional development, Possessions procedures and so on. If you haven't learnt about it, how do you know you're doing it right other than at someone else's expense. Not aimed at you specifically but landlord's usually prefer you paid for your own experience, without gaining it at their cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tswip Posted July 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 Thanks for the responses and views so far; much appreciated. Now, hauling this thread back on topic... After research, I've decided on a two-pronged approach. The first will be to pursue the contractor directly via local trading standards, since the refit was neither completed nor done to anything approaching an acceptable standard. This complaint will centre on the workmanship of the job, and on problems in getting the contractor to subsequently address or remedy the work. I am getting quotes lined up for the work required to fix and complete the job, and already have two independent (verbal, unfortunately) appraisals of the current work that label it as considerably substandard. The second will be a complaint against the letting agent, specifically for failing to maintain adequate and reliable inventory controls, failing to hire competent contractors or to oversee major work performed on the property (both at work completion and when the tenants moved out just a month or so later), failing to adequately address issues with the contractor after a complaint was made, and failing to follow the in-house complaints process mandated by sections 15b and 15f of the NAEA Code of Conduct for Letting Agents. Initially I'll follow the agent's in-house process (assuming they have one) as best I can, follow up with the NAEA -- the letting agent is a member -- and then finally if all else fails, trading standards again. (I believe I cannot use the Ombudsman because they only work with sellers and buyers, correct?) It's possible the parties involved may start to cooperate, in which case I may not need to pursue both of the above. However, as it stands, communications with both have now reached the point where formal complaints appear to be the best option. Anyone see any problems or pitfalls with this approach? Or suggested modifications or improvements? Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J4L Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 I'm not anti-agent, far from it, nor am I anti-franchise. I am however anti industry-ignorance, self serving hype, blundering, poor levels of service and deceipt. It's not this forum you have to convince about the quality of your business. Good for your clients if you provide high levels of service. Unfortunately, it's now widely recognized in this sector that your route of entry also offers an open door to very many poor quality start-ups that don't do what it says on the box or website and continually louse things up for landlords and tenants. Regulated entry, stated service standard compliance and regular audits of the operation won't stop all problems but will go a long way to reducing them, restricting rogue traders and putting off the clowns who haven't a clue both at start-up and during operation. I'd have thought it was obvious what I meant by training courses; industry subjects might include: Inventories, Lettings and the Law, Handling deposits correctly, Property Manager needs and requirements, Knowing the Housing Act, Understanding tenancies, continual professional development, Possessions procedures and so on. If you haven't learnt about it, how do you know you're doing it right other than at someone else's expense. Not aimed at you specifically but landlord's usually prefer you paid for your own experience, without gaining it at their cost. I agree that you can call for regulation but until it happens you only have choice. If you are clued up then you should know what questions to ask and how to ask them. The problem with regulation is that if LA's become regulated it won't be very long before the private LL's are also. And trust me, I have a lot more experience managing 100+ properties than the normal LL who has one or two! With regard to your suggestions of training courses, yes I am suitably trained in all the areas you mention, at MY expense and not at any LL's expense. But as you MUST know things arise that no training course can prepare you for which means you have to feel your way through a problem using the resources you have and the knowledge and experience you have gained. That's LIFE not just business. Do private LL's go on courses? I doubt that many do, they have a problem, try and deal with it, b**s it up then come to me to sort it out!! This has happened many times over the last couple of months. As and when regulation is introduced I will comply willingly, until that day I will continue to grow my business as we have been as an unregulated Letting Agent. tswip I think you have thought this through superbly but I still feel that your first port of call should be the agent. You may find that once you mention a lot of the above they may just fall into line and start to rectify the problems. It appears that you are going to make a lot of work for yourself by following the above route. I really would be tempted to print off your reply here and formalise this in a letter to the agent before you start going for the contractor. Just my gut reaction really but my thoughts are that this cock up is down to the agent initially and at their doorstep you should be placing the blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPEL Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 The prime difference between regulating agents and landlords is that agents are running a business and paid to provide a service to their clients the landlord, have access to many deposits and it's someone else's property not their own. Having said that, there is also high-level discussion that landlords should be licensed before renting out property but far harder to implement. Guess we're not going to know who provided your lettings training, what subjects and when, without which there's no acceptable platform to start from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPEL Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 Tswip - This hasn't gone off topic as it leads to a wider discussion about recognized standards. A fundamental part of regulation is ensuring there is a clear dispute procedure with third party arbitration. As you mention the agent is regulated by the NAEA, you should discuss your concern with the agent and then ask them about their complaint procedure. Many non-regulated agents don't have one, or one with any teeth. Dispute procedures, bonded client accounts, periodic external audits, approved training and other regulatory requirements are all there to avoid problems or protect the client if problems occur. Go to an agent without them and you're left exposed to higher risk. Regulation is no guarantee things won't go wrong. However, using a regulated agent means the chances of problems happening are minimized and mandatory safeguards are in place to reduce subsequent client and consumer losses if things do go wonky. As a general point for all, you wouldn't let a property to a tenant without certain checks and safeguards being in place, it should be the same with your choice of agent. Question for J4L, what do you do to protect the interests of your landlords, can't see anything on your site? I don't mean the we'll pay your rent same day, sort repairs for you cheaply type stuff but the fundamental asset protection aspect. For example, if you went bust and walked away with the deposit & client accounts how are your clients protected? Sounds like a witch hunt, which it isn't really but illustrating a point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J4L Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 Question for J4L, what do you do to protect the interests of your landlords, can't see anything on your site? I don't mean the we'll pay your rent same day, sort repairs for you cheaply type stuff but the fundamental asset protection aspect. For example, if you went bust and walked away with the deposit & client accounts how are your clients protected? Sounds like a witch hunt, which it isn't really but illustrating a point. Deposits are all protected in DPS, Client accounts? The money isn't in the clients account long enough for me to build up enough for me to do a runner with. My LL's KNOW when their money is due and if it wasn't paid they would phone me and ask. any business is built on trust and my LL's can trust me, they know that, they have access to me 24 hours a day. They know where I live. No more insurance against me doing a runner than someone who is regulated. Being a member of ARLA doesn't give Landlords ANY assurances that the person won't do a runner. I'm currently leading a 'witch hunt' as you call it against a 'regulated' agent that has tucked the Landlord up for £28k!!! I don't see this regulated body handing over bundles of cash to the LL. They just give reassurances that these people won't be able to trade again, under "the same name". So we've complained, the body has just said, sorry you'll have to take him to court for your money! What difference is that? Barn door closed after the horse has bolted!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPEL Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 Don't you understand what a bonded client account is? Being regulated doesn't stop agents doing a runner or going bust but protects their clients if it happens. Your client protection policy seems to be - "take my word for it". Not a policy recommended at Business School. You do know business, clearly your clients don't. Wonder what they'd think if you decided to cease trading somewhere between 27th & month-end, with their rent in your unprotected client account (approx £50k from 100 managed properties). You may be true to your word, many aren't and all we have is their word for it also. Maybe you have identified a USP, try advertizing "Landlords, we're untrained & unregulated, leaving you unprotected" and see how many extra LLs you get. As Sir Alan might say: "I've heard all yer wriggling & jiggling, the argument against doesn't stand up to scrutiny; yer fired! The sooner all agents are compelled to provide certain safeguards the better. No solution is perfect but better than nothing at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.