mecconoid Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 Hi All, New to this forum. My problem is after Letting Agents issued tenants with a S21, tenants didn't move out so got a myself a solicitor to go to court for a Possession Order, he went to court on Friday, one of the tenants turned up at court and said her solicitor couldn't come to court as they are waiting for legal aid, so the judge adjourned it until the next available date, why didn't the judge grant the possession order and will i get it next time, i don't understand why it was adjourned. any advice would be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mortitia Posted July 2, 2008 Report Share Posted July 2, 2008 Hi All, New to this forum. My problem is after Letting Agents issued tenants with a S21, tenants didn't move out so got a myself a solicitor to go to court for a Possession Order, he went to court on Friday, one of the tenants turned up at court and said her solicitor couldn't come to court as they are waiting for legal aid, so the judge adjourned it until the next available date, why didn't the judge grant the possession order and will i get it next time, i don't understand why it was adjourned. any advice would be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mortitia Posted July 2, 2008 Report Share Posted July 2, 2008 Obviously your tenant thinks there is a good reason why he/she should not move out. Did they not reply to the Section 21 notice with reasons? This could be a long wait for a result so prepare youself. Even when you get the court order they may still not go until you get the bailiff in. Check waiting times in your area to give you an idea. Mortitia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mecconoid Posted July 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 2, 2008 Obviously your tenant thinks there is a good reason why he/she should not move out. Did they not reply to the Section 21 notice with reasons? This could be a long wait for a result so prepare youself. Even when you get the court order they may still not go until you get the bailiff in. Check waiting times in your area to give you an idea. Mortitiayourself Hi thanks for reply, After tenant received the S21 they phoned the letting agent and told them they would not be paying the rent (which was late every month and not paid for that month) and they could stay there as long as they liked. I decided not to renew their contract shortly before there 6 months was up, which i thought was my right, so i don't see they could have any reasons for not leaving other than they want to live somewhere for nothing. Can a Judge make me renew there contract? surly not. These tenants have done damage broken windows which i have had to contact the LA to report and the LA have had real problems getting hold of tenants. Do i have to have a reason for issuing a S21 other than i want my property back. There has been no contact between LA and tenant S21 was issued they basically said it's your problem now and as i live 150 miles away it's difficult to say the least. Mecconoid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPEL Posted July 2, 2008 Report Share Posted July 2, 2008 You don't need to have a reason for the S21 and if valid cannot be refused, just delayed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mecconoid Posted July 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 2, 2008 You don't need to have a reason for the S21 and if valid cannot be refused, just delayed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mecconoid Posted July 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 2, 2008 Hi, Do you know how many times they can delay giving me the PO, tenants now owe 5 months rent. All the paperwork has been done by my solicitor so that side of things is correct. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mortitia Posted July 3, 2008 Report Share Posted July 3, 2008 Hi, Do you know how many times they can delay giving me the PO, tenants now owe 5 months rent. All the paperwork has been done by my solicitor so that side of things is correct. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mortitia Posted July 3, 2008 Report Share Posted July 3, 2008 Hi, Do you know how many times they can delay giving me the PO, tenants now owe 5 months rent. All the paperwork has been done by my solicitor so that side of things is correct. Thanks Hi there, There is obviously something wrong with all this. What does you solicitor say the reason for the delay? Ask him/her. You are paying the bill so demand to know what is going on. Having a solicitor is no guarantee the paperwork is correct - believe me, I have been there. Get on to them and demand an explanation - again, you are paying the bill and they have a duty to keep you informed. You should have given notice as per your AST which is usually 8 weeks not 1 month before the end- check, and if they were troublesome LA types then you should have also issued a Section 21 to be sure then you could have had them in court quicker. Gpel gives you a clue here in saying was the section 21 served/issued correctly? It sounds like the tenants know how to play the game. In some areas the courts are very slow. You can check the backlog by phoning the court in question. Look at www.hmcourts.gov for where the one for your area is and the number. Mortitia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonbaldry Posted July 3, 2008 Report Share Posted July 3, 2008 Hi The courts have been instructed to do everything they can to allow people to remain in there properties if they are being reposesed. Increasingly This is also the case with rental properties, with some very shody tenants are being given benefit of dought, same judges!!. As the tenant is in arrears you may want to consider a section 8, however this may just be an extra expense, ask your solicitor. I would suggest you write to the housing benefit office and ask for any hb to be suspended, even if you do not know that the tenant is claiming. You may be able to reclaim some money this way. Finally the agent should take some responsibility, your tenant seems fairly clued up and may have done this before. I would ask to see what referencing was taken. Please let us know what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mecconoid Posted July 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2008 Hi there, There is obviously something wrong with all this. What does you solicitor say the reason for the delay? Ask him/her. You are paying the bill so demand to know what is going on. Having a solicitor is no guarantee the paperwork is correct - believe me, I have been there. Get on to them and demand an explanation - again, you are paying the bill and they have a duty to keep you informed. You should have given notice as per your AST which is usually 8 weeks not 1 month before the end- check, and if they were troublesome LA types then you should have also issued a Section 21 to be sure then you could have had them in court quicker. Gpel gives you a clue here in saying was the section 21 served/issued correctly? It sounds like the tenants know how to play the game. In some areas the courts are very slow. You can check the backlog by phoning the court in question. Look at www.hmcourts.gov for where the one for your area is and the number. Mortitia Hi Mortitia, My solicitor tells me he does'nt know why the PO wasn't granted apart from the fact it was a (quote) wishy washy part time judge and when he said they had no defence she said well we'll adjourn until the next court date available, due to there solicitor not being there. My tenants AST runs from 5th of thdoesn'te month to the 4th. They moved into the property on 5/10 /07 There AST ended on 4/04/08 On march 26th 08 i instructed my LA to send a S21 which they did giving 2 months notice, this was double checked by my solicitor to make sure the dates were correct. So all that in order i can't see what defence they could have. One more question can i arrange for a bailiff once i have the PO to come to the property on the day the judge says they have to leave or do i have to wait and see if they leave first and then arrange one. Many thanks for your replies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mortitia Posted July 3, 2008 Report Share Posted July 3, 2008 Hi Mortitia, My solicitor tells me he does'nt know why the PO wasn't granted apart from the fact it was a (quote) wishy washy part time judge and when he said they had no defence she said well we'll adjourn until the next court date available, due to there solicitor not being there. My tenants AST runs from 5th of thdoesn'te month to the 4th. They moved into the property on 5/10 /07 There AST ended on 4/04/08 On march 26th 08 i instructed my LA to send a S21 which they did giving 2 months notice, this was double checked by my solicitor to make sure the dates were correct. So all that in order i can't see what defence they could have. One more question can i arrange for a bailiff once i have the PO to come to the property on the day the judge says they have to leave or do i have to wait and see if they leave first and then arrange one. Many thanks for your replies. Hi to you, Ask to know when the next court date is. I have never encountered that reply. You can only instruct the bailiff once you have the PO. Do it immediately you get the PO as there may be a waiting time for the bailiff (8 weeks in parts of London). I doubt if they will go on reciept of the PO but will wait for LA to re-house them. Some authorities do it on the receipt of PO and some hang it out for eviction by bailiff. There are a couple of websites on learning to do Section 21 yourself in the correct manner. It could be worth your while learning this for future reference. It's not rocket science and then things will be totally in your control - if that's what you want. Good Luck Mortitia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mecconoid Posted July 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2008 Hi to you, Ask to know when the next court date is. I have never encountered that reply. You can only instruct the bailiff once you have the PO. Do it immediately you get the PO as there may be a waiting time for the bailiff (8 weeks in parts of London). I doubt if they will go on reciept of the PO but will wait for LA to re-house them. Some authorities do it on the receipt of PO and some hang it out for eviction by bailiff. There are a couple of websites on learning to do Section 21 yourself in the correct manner. It could be worth your while learning this for future reference. It's not rocket science and then things will be totally in your control - if that's what you want. Good Luck Mortitia Hi all, Thank you for all your replies, I will certainly look into doing it myself next time, just though it would be easier with a solicitor as the property in question is in Birmingham and i live in South Wales. I'll also get onto my solicitor and find out when the next court date is, am hoping i won't have to wait 7 weeks for another date as thats how long it took to get the first date. I'll let you know how it all turns out. Mecconoid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trenners Posted July 4, 2008 Report Share Posted July 4, 2008 Hi All, A few thoughts and comments about a Section 21 notice. 1) You must give the tenant 2 months (and a few days to allow for posting notice) - It seems that you did. 2) I assume you protected the tenants deposit money when they moved in - otherwise a Section 21 notice is invalid. 3) There is NO defence to a valid Section 21 notice. You do not have to give a reason to regain possession of your property. The tenant has no defence. 4) Using the accelerated possession procedure - you do not need to go to court and you do not need to see a judge. So, I am not really sure what is happening in your case. You should not have to wait for the court - you should not even be in court. You simply fill the forms in at the court, pay the court fee, it takes about 28 days for the court to contact the tenant and then award you an eviction order without a hearing. I don't think you are being well advised ...... Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPEL Posted July 4, 2008 Report Share Posted July 4, 2008 Further guidance at www.landlordlaw.co.uk or google lettings fact sheets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mecconoid Posted July 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2008 Further guidance at www.landlordlaw.co.uk or google lettings fact sheets. Hi GPEL, Correct notice was given 2 months , The deposit was protected as we used a letting agent, although i have to say when things start going wrong then it becomes your problem and they don't want anything more to do with it. The reason we didn't use the fast track was because after the notice period ending and they still hadn't left the property, we were advise that we needed to go to court as there was at that time 3 months rent owing, which is now 5 months so your right maybe the fast track would have been easier and cheaper in the long run. I just want them out, you do everything correct so you can get your PO and then a judge decides to change the rules, costing me more money and time, and i don't even get a reason for it. Regards Mecconoid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mecconoid Posted July 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2008 Hi GPEL, Correct notice was given 2 months , The deposit was protected as we used a letting agent, although i have to say when things start going wrong then it becomes your problem and they don't want anything more to do with it. The reason we didn't use the fast track was because after the notice period ending and they still hadn't left the property, we were advise that we needed to go to court as there was at that time 3 months rent owing, which is now 5 months so your right maybe the fast track would have been easier and cheaper in the long run. I just want them out, you do everything correct so you can get your PO and then a judge decides to change the rules, costing me more money and time, and i don't even get a reason for it. Regards Mecconoid Hi, Update Been onto my solicitor again, he said the other reason it was adjourned was because the other tenant said he had to go to a funeral and the judge took the sympathy vote being a Friday afternoon, also he said there is nothing to stop this happening again. Any advice on what else i can do if anything. Still waiting for another court date. Mecconoid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonbaldry Posted July 4, 2008 Report Share Posted July 4, 2008 Hi Again I have just remebered tenants only qualify for legal aid if there is a discretionary reason for obtaining the possesion order, if the grounds are mandatory then they are not allowed legal aid. As possesion under a section 21 is mandatory, your tenant is not entiled to legal aid. Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mecconoid Posted July 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 Hi Again I have just remebered tenants only qualify for legal aid if there is a discretionary reason for obtaining the possesion order, if the grounds are mandatory then they are not allowed legal aid. As possesion under a section 21 is mandatory, your tenant is not entiled to legal aid. Simon Hi All Just thought i'd keep you informed, have now received another court date for 20/08/08. Fingers crossed all goe's well this time and we get the PO. Mecconoid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mecconoid Posted August 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2008 Well what can i say, from bad to worse. Went back to court on the 20/08/08 to get a PO, and this time the tenants are saying they didn't receive the notice to quit. We now have to prove they did. My question is how do we do this as it was all do by the LA who sent it by first class post. However the tenants did phone the LA to say they had received it and because of that they weren't going to pay anymore rent. Can my solicitor get a statement from the LA (they are willing to do this) and will it help? I'd be grateful for any input or advice anyone has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mortitia Posted August 22, 2008 Report Share Posted August 22, 2008 Hi Meccanoid, When I had same scenario back in Feb I got my brother to take notice round and stick it thru letterbox and he signed a document prepared by my solicitor stateing he had served notice. This was produced at court. Brother and solicitor being 100 miles apart at time of serving. This worked. So all you will be doing is the same but with hindsight. Surely solicitor knows if OK or not? Solicitor should have seen this one coming don't you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mecconoid Posted August 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2008 Hi Mortitia I have to agree with you, the solicitor should have seen it coming and he should also have been in contact with the LA, which he has only just done after being instructed by the court to do so. It's so frustrating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPEEDTWIN Posted August 23, 2008 Report Share Posted August 23, 2008 You have been very unlucky in having a both a agent and solicitor not doing their jobs properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mecconoid Posted October 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2008 Hi everyone, Back in court today for the 3rd time for a PO, the tenant and their solicitor failed to turn up. The magistrate was all for delaying it again. but our solicitor argued that it wasn't our problem that they failed to turn up and this was the 3rd time we'd been and we wanted the PO granted. So we have our PO and the tenants have 14 days to vacant the property, which they proberly won't and we will have to get the bailiff to remove them, but at least we are now making progress. Anyone know how long you have to wait for a court bailiff in Birmingham? I'd like to thank you all for your input over the last few months. Mecconoid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Dewsberry Posted October 20, 2008 Report Share Posted October 20, 2008 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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