Buying another BTL- Bold move or stupidity?

[Grampa]

Had a chunk of cash hanging about so just had a very/fairly good offer accepted on another BTL flat. Five flats in a block with a comes with share of the Freehold and sensible service charges. Cant see huge capital growth in the future (regardless of Brexit) but a good yield but in the same road and opposite 2 other flats I own. 

I am purchasing it in a Ltd company which is a first for me.

Bold move or pure stupidity?😄

[Richlist]

I see positives and negatives........I think the POSITIVES win.......

POSITIVES

* You have funds already available.

* You've agreed to buy at a good price.

* Share of freehold included.

* Attractive service charges.

* Good yield.

* Limited company purchase which provides tax advantages.

* You are already working professionally in the industry......so have first hand, up to date knowledge.

NEGATIVES

* Legislation continues to impact profit......future Tory legislation is all negative for landlords.

* Property price rises halted......potential fall in prices possible depending on Brexit outcome.

* Labour may win the next General Election.....additional very bad news for landlords.

 

 

But where else can you currently put your money to produce a better return in these low interest times ?

If anyone knows......please let me know.

[Mortitia]

I see it as a positive Grampa. 

Will Labour re-possess our hard worked for rental properties and sell them to the tenants?  If so it will be time to exit this green and pleasant land.

[Melboy]

I see it as a positive  move BUT only if the price paid is reasonable and you have a cushion against the small price drop which is happening right now.........but will recover.

I bought 2 properties in the past year (the flat you know about Grampa   😉  ) I sold the flat back in June because after fully renovating it and a lot of hard work I accepted an offer I just could not refuse.

I also bought a modern 2 bed semi and that was renovated by me and is currently let out. Probably paid slightly too much for that property but the location was 1st class and if you have the money then my policy is just do it but in a business like fashion.

Interest rates remain low and % returns on cash held is not good and this will remain so imo for a long time yet.

 

[Carryon Regardless]

I don't disagree with any of the comments.

All our predictions are based on the use of a crystal ball, more than ever that is less than reliable.

Labour getting in seems a very remote possibility, thank god. But we ar in strange times and nowt is certain. Even the Tories are attacking us continually as an industry. We only offer each other sympathy as no one else will, we are considered fair game.

BTL has been about revenues, rather than capital growth, since 2008. I don't see that changing. I also don't see rents dropping, by much at least, unless legislation steps in for some reason that I don't foresee. So if the rental return on the dosh looks attractive, and it goes w/o saying that you understand the market better than most, it has to be a winner.

What else would you do with the spare dosh? Buy a place in the southern hemishpere to spend half your life at, perhaps. I don't see much positive around the UK for a while, what ever happens with Brexit.

 

[Richlist]

Capital growth since 2008 has been very good for me. Property that I bought in 2007/2008 has risen in value by at least 60%.  That is considered poor if compared to London but it varies considerably across the country.

Of course, my return is much greater than 60% because I didn't pay for the property in the first place.......I just paid a small deposit and borrowed the rest of the money. The rental income paid the mortgage payments and other outgoings.

There is always capital growth with property.......it's the only thing that makes a property with a low yield an attractive proposition. Capital growth has allowed me to pull a 7 figure profit out of my rental business over the last few years. Its capital growth that produces property wealth, not rental income.

 

 

 

 

[Melboy]

I would also say that for me property capital growth has been very good since 2008.  Certainly exceeds any other investments I may have.

Labour election victory is looking a bit remote I have to say as the UK has never wanted to be ruled by those with a communist leaning as displayed by Comrade Corbyn and Commissar Mcdonald and the Momentum organisation.

Mind you the Tories have not exactly been landlord friendly either over the past 8 years.

[Grampa]

Thanks for your thoughts guys. 

The only thing that hurts is the ltd company mortgage which are not as good as personal BTL. Managed to source a 5 year fixed for 3.19% but the borrowing is only in the region of 60-70k so the payments relatively small.

Had to drag that rate out from the FA as he first suggested a 3.99% rate with lower fees but the lower rate and over double arrangement fees still saves over 2.5k over the period of 5 years so do your sums guys.

[Richlist]

Grampa have you done a calculation comparing your Ltd company mortgage including all the costs vs a normal BTL mortgage including all the costs AND taking the different tax treatment into account ?

My assumption is that your purchase through your Ltd company ...including the cost of setting up the company, the higher arrangement fees & higher interest rate etc is more profitable than buying through the normal BTL route.

Haven't the Tories indicated they intend to lower corporation tax significantly (ultimately to 10%) with or without a Brexit deal........the future might look very bright ?

My agent just told me they have done exactly the same as you by taking a Ltd company loan......I think it's the way to go.

[Grampa]

Its not just the tax savings, its the extra flexibility on ownership, shareholding etc. The long term plan being to leave the properties to the kids.

I should do as you say grind down the numbers a bit more if I was honest but it does help having family members who are accountants  with their own practice and landlords themselves. The plan with the  properties I have at the moment is to gradually sell and "upgrade" to bigger, freehold, share of freehold  with reasonable service charges. and buy via the Ltd Co.

I am finding the the prices are reducing at the moment and not as many purchasers out there (which many change a bit next month) so I guess  depending on your level of risk it could be viewed an a good time to get a good deal.

 

[Nev M]

Hi Grampa,

I think you made the right choice, where else is a good return at the moment? I was thinking of buying car parks lol.

I am definitely the newbie of the forum and only have 2 properties currently (and just bought the second) and with the same sentiment of where else can i put my money that will give the best returns (Committed now for better or worse). Granted the increased Stamp Duty, loss of 10% wear and tear hurts but and opted for a BTL standard Mortgage as placed as Deed of Trust in wife's name 99/1.

Same as you i placed a large deposit and so the mortgage is small and the mortgage interest relief mitigated somewhat by this.

I bought more as an investment on rental return for future than I did for capital growth. I worked on assumption over a 10 to 15 year period it will see about a min 30% increase and mortgage paid in 5 years. I am not assuming any real growth and potential drop over next 2 to 5 years then hoping it will balance and rise at a moderate amount with the mortgage covered by rent.

Had times and tax laws been different and I though Capital growth was a reasonable certainty then i would have gone for a few properties on low mortgages and Ltd company maybe.