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Grampa

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Not very often I am shocked by a tenants actions but one phoned up Tuesday 03.01.17 to state the hot water packed up on xmas eve (we were open that day & had emergency phone no over xmas) but she has only just reported it now because she didn't want to bother us over xmas. 

As it happens it is one of my personal properties, anyhow so I have pulled out all the stops to get it fixed asap.

Not like another tenant who went down the emergency route and kicked off big time because the boiler needed re-pressurerising even though they had been given instructions previously on how to do it.

What is the consensus on this site regarding re-pressurerising of boilers if the tenant has written instructions on how to do it. Would you consider it no different than having to re-light the piolet light if it goes out?

I have only personally had to re-pressurerise the boiler in my own house and it is so simple but not sure about the ease of doing it  on the various different types of boiler.

 

 

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One of our properties has a boiler that is designed to be repressurised periodically, the others are more modern. In all properties we have gas central heating and boiler service contracts. For us managing the properties ourselves it is a price worth paying. If the tenant calls us we remind them of the gas service contract number and they soon realise it is quicker to actually do it themselves than wait for a non emergency call out. In the flat with the boiler that needs depressurising it has really been different depending on tenant. One was a nightmare calling regularly and most have been a dream.

Creating a mini 30 second video of my husband doing the de-pressurising seems to generally been a great idea and a simple tool to redirect them to if they ever do forget as well as for new tenants. 

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I don't like T's doing anything, I assume it all is beyond their competence. 

A nice lady T re pressured the system and forgot to turn off the fill tap. The increase in pressure passes the relief valve ok, but these things rarely settle back as designed and continue to weep afterwards. But in this case it also found a weakness at a HEP 90 deg 22mm joint and blew it. I sorted it all w/o drama and didn't cause the T to feel at all bad, but better I didn't have to.

If we provide instruction to do these things then a T will likely say "you told me to", difficult for us to claim for ill effects of their actions then as we can if / when they do / authorise works of their own accord. There was discussion on here some time ago on how we should provide instructions for all that is in a property, I don't agree. I prefer a T to make contact when they have issues, I can then decide on the urgency and appropriate response.

 

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I have no personal experience of pressuring boilers but if it's reasonably easy then tenants should have responsibility.

Let's look at other areas where tenants are responsible.....changing light bulbs, batteries, tap washers, dealing with the complexities of storage heaters, using simple hand tools for basic repairs......all expected of a tenant.

I think they should have a choice of ......learn how to do it yourself or wait a few days for the landlords/ agents plumber to call.......I know which one I would pick.

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I don't like tenants doing anything that could cause a bigger problem, if they over pressurise the boiler it could blow the seal in the valve.

Its a two minute job.

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Whilst on the phone to my LA earlier today I took the opportunity to ask them how they deal with it.

The answer as all you landlords expected is = on notification of a problem with the boiler requiring repressurisation, they call out their resident plumber and the landlord gets the bill.

So, business as usual then.............?

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Boiler pressurisation.........a common problem.   My Son gets called out many times to do this.  Most importantly failure to re-pressurise the boiler will lead to pump burn-out fairly quickly....... and an expensive repair bill for the landlord.

My personal view is that it is a very simple operation to carry out and should not be beyond the wit of any tenant to carry out. ( or maybe not  :D ).

Quite rightly  there is a charge to do this by the Plumber..... in most circumstances.

I check my pressure gauge 2-3 times a week. If I have to do it then so can a tenant. imo

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36 minutes ago, Melboy said:

Boiler pressurisation.........a common problem.   My Son gets called out many times to do this.  Most importantly failure to re-pressurise the boiler will lead to pump burn-out fairly quickly....... and an expensive repair bill for the landlord.

My personal view is that it is a very simple operation to carry out and should not be beyond the wit of any tenant to carry out. ( or maybe not  :D ).

Quite rightly  there is a charge to do this by the Plumber..... in most circumstances.

I check my pressure gauge 2-3 times a week. If I have to do it then so can a tenant. imo

In your experience Melboy is the operation the same for most boilers. Having only had to do it on my home one which involves turning 2 knobs 1/4 turn until the needle on the gauge meets the red line then turn the knobs back to the original position. 10-20 seconds maximum but a plumber we have used on the rentals has charged a £60 which I understand as there is likely to be a minimum call out..

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Mel perhaps you could confirm that the fill loop (with it's non return valve) isn't supposed to be left fitted.

Some years ago I plumbed a copper filling loop, thinking it removed some faff, on inspection my 'engineer' told me it was naughty.

 

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Over the years we have had some really good tenants, the most recent a couple wanted a porch, no problem, they said they would cover the cost, £3 grand.

Nice tenants.

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Um......Yes, probably.

What they going to do when you serve an s21 on them ?

Circumstances can change quickly.

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On 06/01/2017 at 11:07 AM, Grampa said:

In your experience Melboy is the operation the same for most boilers. Having only had to do it on my home one which involves turning 2 knobs 1/4 turn until the needle on the gauge meets the red line then turn the knobs back to the original position. 10-20 seconds maximum but a plumber we have used on the rentals has charged a £60 which I understand as there is likely to be a minimum call out..

 

Correct Grampa.......slooowly open the two isolator valve lever's to pressurise the boiler system until the needle is just into the green sector of the boiler pressure gauge.

£60 does seem rather excessive imo but there again all charges are different aren't they.  I know my Son sometimes charges nothing if he is in the area or is passing by to £20-£30 if he has to travel distance. He has a very good working relationship with the EA 's he is contracted to so that may have some bearing on his low charges.... or no charge.

 

COR.

The braided s/steel filling loop is normally left in place.

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2 hours ago, Melboy said:

 

Correct Grampa.......slooowly open the two isolator valve lever's to pressurise the boiler system until the needle is just into the green sector of the boiler pressure gauge.

£60 does seem rather excessive imo but there again all charges are different aren't they.  I know my Son sometimes charges nothing if he is in the area or is passing by to £20-£30 if he has to travel distance. He has a very good working relationship with the EA 's he is contracted to so that may have some bearing on his low charges.... or no charge.

 

COR.

The braided s/steel filling loop is normally left in place.

If you over pressurize by mistake what is the fix and implementations?  

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Just now, Grampa said:

If you over pressurize by mistake what is the fix and implementations?  

Pressure relief valve  " blows" to relieve excess pressure build-up. Some boiler PRV's are self seating again..... some are not.

If you see a very high gauge pressure then bleed off a radiator to lower the pressure and bring the pressure back into the green..... or 1 bar setting.

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I've found that the self sealing PRV's have a tendency to weep when a few years old as the heat has hardened the rubber sealing ring. As you'll know Mel only around £20 for a new valve but can be knuckle destroying to replace (that ignores the back twisting  shapes we have to get into).

I view the PRV as there for safety as for convenience it's not convenient in the long term.

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It sounds both an easy operation and a very bad design.

Why build any system with a non self seating PRV ?

Why, when the rubber seal hardens and leaks can't it be designed to replace easily ?  There are many sealing washers elsewhere in plumbing systems that are cheap and simple to replace.

Why can't the whole operation be automated, reliable, easy and designed with durability in mind.

We wouldn't accept this ridiculous scenario in other pieces of technical equipment that we all own.

Sounds like we need the Government to get involved and legislate for improvements! ?

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Like cars, some boilers are Rolls Royce and you pay the money for it or if you want an entry range boiler then it's Fiat 500 for you .:D

I think it's fair to say that my Boy will only fit Worcester/Bosch as he is an accredited installer by W/B. He knows them inside out and back to front when it comes to repair and installation. He is pretty good on all the other makes as well when it comes to diagnosis and repair work.

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Cars are a good example.

Rolls Royce and Fiat 500 both have brakes. They work, are easy to maintain and I can almost guarantee they don't have rubber washers that give up.

There is no excuse.

What are the Germans buying ?.....I can't believe they would tolerate this boiler nonsense.

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Not quite true RL,

Buy a Honda and likely as not it needs only fuel and service,

buy a Hyundia and you might well be replacing the turbo each year. As for Germans, I have driven Mercs for years for the better engineering but they are so complicated there is more to go wrong. And their recent engines don't fill me with confidence (especially the Renault engines I've heard will be going in some MB's).

I'm with Mel in that you get what you pay for, hopefully.

 

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The suggestion that some of these boilers are badly designed, poor quality and have little or no real durability looks to be right. It seems the integrity of some of the components is not reliable and they are being offloaded onto the British public.

Making excuses for them just doesn't work for me.

The British are very good at accepting rubbish, supporting the firms that supply it and paying top prices for the privelege.

You can make as many excuses as you like but it doesn't change the facts or the problems faced by landlords.

 

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