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Carryon Regardless

Serving a Notice

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To follow on from the present 'Problem Tenants Won't Cooperate' thread posted by Rachel09.

For years I have used the proof of postage, no signature required, method of serving my notices. I hadn't considerd that unsigned recorded mail returned by the P.O. would suffice as proof of service, here I would have thought a T claiming to be away from the property for that specific period would be a defence of 'no service'??

Rachel has posted that the Judge in her case refused to accept this as proof of service at the hearing of her S8 claim.

I am due to go for a repossession (S21 notice expeires 23rd) and used the proof of postage method, so here I have interest to know if this is becoming a common situation. Rachel perhaps you could enlighten;

Was the proof of service challenged or did the Judge decide to act for the T without an objection 1st being raised?

Was there anything else here that may have caused the Judge to doubt correct service?

It will certainly be beneficial to me to understand if there is now a new risk and I suspect strongly many others will benefit too.

 

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Proof of Posting....... or a "Certificate of Posting" which always bears the postcode of the property the letter is being posted to.

If a tenant states they were away when a recorded letter was being attempted to be posted and signed for by them and the Judge believes the tenant over your documented evidence then it is indeed time to go outside and shoot yourself.

 

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I totally agree Melboy, but some of the things we read about here and other places seem to contradict reason, common sense and even a belief that we are running an honest business. I sometimes wonder if it was I that told Eve to eat the apple but just can't remeber it.

I still intend to go forward with my S21 repossession claim with only my proof of post, no signature required by design. It has the post code and also the actual flat number. It doesn't state the tenants name (but git wouldn't look so good anyway). I still don't see the lack of evidence in that so I'm looking for some enlightenment.

Actually I've said before that what ever type of formal evidence we provide there has to be some assumption that what was in the envelope was actually what we say we sent, and that it arrived in a legible state.

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I think a lot of the trouble here is the ignorance of the judge. There seems to be no continuity in methods or decisions within the County Court system and most often people bringing the cases have no legal training and are not represented by so called 'legal professionals' so they can't site a previous ruling of say  'Mayhem V Rollocks 1989'. 

It always infuriates me at the CC when the usher asks 'are you legally represented' and on hearing a negative immediately puts your case to the bottom of the list.

I will be at the CC soon helping a tenant sue her previous landlords for rent (£3,500) that should not have been demanded (with documented menaces).  One of the 2 persons who were 'the Landlord' has tried everything to maintain he was not served by the 'send from 2 separate post offices with proof' method and therefore not a party to the claim.

The court and MCOL have been most helpful is stating that this person is unlikely to get away with it as we have 2 current sources saying that is his address and the judge will rule on 'likelihood of possibilities'  - but say we get a niggly, naff judge on the day who acts like that of Rachel?

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There are a number of methods for serving doc's.

I have always used the method of posting 2 copies to the tenant, one with certificate of postage and the other by recorded. I know 9 times out of 10 the tenants don't sign for the recorded one but it has never been a issue yet (first time for everything though). On the court paperwork where it asked how the notice was served I just put. "By Royal Mail, 2 copies sent one by recorded one by proof of postage" then attach a photo copy of both tickets.

The judges appear to accept that without question. I even use that method when the property is across the road from our office. The reason being if you have to deliver by hand you then may have to get into witness statements by the person who delivered it which it a pain in the backside.

 

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One way to get the tenant to sign for the recorded delivery is something I think Richlist mentioned a long time ago which is to put the recorded letter inside a amazon box or similar. You can bet your life they will sign for it then.

I have been longing to use this method but havent had the opportunity yet.

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1 hour ago, Grampa said:

One way to get the tenant to sign for the recorded delivery is something I think Richlist mentioned a long time ago which is to put the recorded letter inside a amazon box or similar. You can bet your life they will sign for it then.

 

" Your free gift inside this Amazon box label "....... guarantee's a tenant's signature.  :D

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They may or may not pay their taxes and as a result you may or may not use them depending on your viewpoint but Amazon can come in useful sometimes.......and you don't have to send them any money. ?

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All letters to tenants are always sent proof of postage.

The judge stated that " I went to post office, gave the letter to a man, who then gave it to another man who drives a red van. This is then taken to a large warehouse and then sent out with another man to post'

he said that this is not proof, we couldn't believe it 

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Thanks Rachel,

I guess he is saying that recorded delivery is tracked along it's route from a man to a man, who dirves a red van, and through the warehouse..... Was this point of defence raised by the defendant or did the judge act as defendants agent?

He doesn't trust the reliability of our postal system but I don't trust the reliability of our court system that promotes open abuse.

But I've recently recieved 4 Compton claims from the County Court, just posted, no signature required. If I were to try saying they didn't arrive I'm sure there would be no sympathy. 

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