karenrobinson Posted April 3, 2015 Report Share Posted April 3, 2015 Hi there, My sons girlfriend took a tenancy in June 2013. In Feb 2014 the landlord wrote to inform her that they had sold the building and provided the name of new owner and bank details to pay rent. (No address or contact number provided). In Jan 2015 she lost her job and had to sign on. She applied for housing but the council refused the rental agreement citing she needed a new one from new owner. She has been now asking the current owner for 8 weeks for a new agreement but they keep spouting that her father is guarantor (which he was for original agreement pp'd by a letting agency under a 'let only'). She has managed to maintain the rent by borrowing but the last payment she could only reach half of it. The housing have approved her claim but will only release funds when she can provided new agreement. I have booked an appointment with the local council's housing department for weds 8th April. My son has informed the owner of this and they have gone ballistic, threatening to evict her. My questions are....1) Is the first rental agreement now void. 2) If it's void do they have the power to evict her. Any advice would be appreciated Karen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richlist Posted April 3, 2015 Report Share Posted April 3, 2015 I have limited knowledge regarding this situation BUT what I do know is that it's a legal requirement for you to be provided with an address to which you can serve legal notices. Seems it's your landlord who is at fault if none has been provided to you. Consequently any attempt by the landlord to serve notice on you is likely to fail. Hopefully someone will be along shortly who can answer your main question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karenrobinson Posted April 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2015 Thank you darling. I'm grateful for any advice, no matter how limited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melboy Posted April 4, 2015 Report Share Posted April 4, 2015 The new owner has failed to follow the correct procedures when dealing with existing tenants living in a property that has been sold on to a new owner. Any Court action by the new owner will fail before it gets started. Let the new Landlord learn the hard way because it will cost him dear if this case ever gets through the front door of a court house. Your Daughter needs to book an appointment with the Citizen's Advice Office. The first tenancy agreement is now void...... as you will be informed. She cannot be evicted. This landlord could resolve the situation by issuing a new tenancy agreement and following the correct tenant / landlord procedures as laid down in housing law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karenrobinson Posted April 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2015 Many thanks for your assistance. It has been 14 months since the new owner took over. There have also been no checks in the flat, eg. Boiler, inventory etc. Without a new agreement she cannot claim the rent and is fearful of repercussions. We have an appt with housing this Weds so we will attend that first. Perhaps they can 'nudge' the new owner before it goes down a legal route. Failing that Citizens advice will be the next step. Many thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karenrobinson Posted April 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2015 If they issue a new agreement, is it legal to back date it to the original take over, or even to the start of her claim back in January? Otherwise the council wont backdate the rent claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melboy Posted April 4, 2015 Report Share Posted April 4, 2015 You cannot back-date a tenancy agreement. Your new landlord has broken many procedures from not protecting your deposit if there is one, to not having a gas safety certificate in place. ( up to £5,000 fine for that offence alone ). Your new landlord is amongst some of the new new breed of wannabee landlord's who don't have a clue nor have a basic knowledge of what the property letting business is all about. They whinge like the devil when the Courts hit their wallets with heavy fines for non compliance of landlord / tenant law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karenrobinson Posted April 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2015 They have admitted their bond is in their safe in cash. I don't think they have a clue what they are doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grampa Posted April 4, 2015 Report Share Posted April 4, 2015 Right lets break this down it is fairly straight forward. First off there are 2 main ways a landlord can evict a tenant, either serving a section 21 notice giving 2 months notice on condition it falls outside the fixed term of the tenancy and any deposit if any is protected correctly otherwise it cannot be used. The other way is a section 8 when the tenant owes 2 months rent. There are others and other requirements but the above is what most evictions are based on. Even after either or both of the above notices are served on the tenant you are looking at about 4-6 months for the landlord to follow it through to a court hearing and the tenant could move out any time before then if they chose to. 1. There isn't a legal requirement to have a written tenancy but obviously a good thing to have one and I would say more for the landlord than the tenant and if you have proof you have made rent payments there is no dispute there is a tenancy in place. 2 You don't have to have a new tenancy on change of ownership and it is perfectly normal to allow the original to continue but the normal required procedure for this is for the new owner to supply their name and an address to comply with section 48 of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1987 which is the address for service on the landlord if necessary and then all the other T&C's in the original agreement continue 3. Because no address has been provided the tenant is within their legal to withhold rent payments and a landlord cannot evict using the section 8 route (see above) But as soon as they supply the address the rent become payable including the arrears. 4. Have you checked on the websites of all three of the deposit protection providers that your deposit is protected? https://www.depositprotection.com/ http://www.mydeposits.co.uk/tenants http://www.tds.gb.com/?gclid=CJ6vqKnr3MQCFeHKtAodYE8APQ These are the only ones and you can either phone up or check on-line to see if your deposit is protected. If not the landlord cannot give notice/evict using the section 21 process (see above) You also have a claim against for up 3 times the value of the deposit. Lots of landlords have been caught out this way. If he returns your deposit he can start the s21 process but you still can claim upto 3 times the value of the deposit. 4a. Even if the deposit is in a scheme you should have also been provided with the "prescribed information" which will be at least 4/5+ pages of info relating to your deposit and where it is protected etc. Not giving you this is the same as not protecting deposit so no s21 can be used. 5. You need to check the wording of guarantee document that was signed as some only cover the original tenancy and not renewals. 6. Make sure you have a good record of rent payments made and get a receipt. 7. If there is no inventory in place it will be virtually impossible for the landlord to claim any damages/cleaning at the end of the tenancy but can claim rent arrears if he can prove it that why its important to keep a good record of payments made. If you want to stay in the property you need to work with the landlord but if you are planning to move out let him find out the mistakes he has made and if he takes you to court for a eviction he will look very foolish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melboy Posted April 4, 2015 Report Share Posted April 4, 2015 They have admitted their bond is in their safe in cash. I don't think they have a clue what they are doing. Well, that statement sums it up as to what you are dealing with here regarding your new landlord. It is not their bond it is your bond. I have to admit (and to me this is common sense ) a new tenancy agreement should be drawn up on change of ownership of the property and the tenant stays. Perhaps this is something that should be looked at by authority if what Grampa is saying, it is not a mandatory requirement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grampa Posted April 4, 2015 Report Share Posted April 4, 2015 I suspect there is a reason why the landlord doesn't want a new contract signed. Mel I agree it makes things clearer and cleaner if a new tenancy is drawn up but not necessary and have evicted a couple of tenants in years gone by where a new ast hasn't been signed and didn't cause a problem with the judge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karenrobinson Posted April 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2015 It is abundantly clear in my eyes that the new Landlord is on a scam. My son's girlfriend was on her own at the time and is young, she was not aware of the protocol. They have clearly taken advantage at her lack of skill in this area, and only now when she has extra support are they running scared. They have been 'caught out'. I thank you all for your advice. I'll report the outcome after our appt on wednesday, unless our Asian brethren come to their senses and play fair. Once again, thank you all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melboy Posted April 5, 2015 Report Share Posted April 5, 2015 Your last sentence sums it up for me. A law unto themselves in some parts of the UK and we, the honest landlord's have to suffer for their incompetence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbut Posted April 5, 2015 Report Share Posted April 5, 2015 + 1 Mel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karenrobinson Posted April 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2015 I know!! Today there is a further development. The landlords brother (who runs the landlords resaurant underneath the kids flat) has requested a meeting today at 5 claiming he has important news. I suspect they will be trying to evict them. If this is the case, how do we proceed? Stop paying rent and look for somewhere else asap? Keep paying rent (although they still can't get it from the council as no valid agreement). We still have the appointment with housing tomor at noon. Thank you in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melboy Posted April 7, 2015 Report Share Posted April 7, 2015 Legally they cannot be evicted. Keep your appointment with housing. Take it from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karenrobinson Posted April 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2015 Thank you my lovely. I'm awaiting the kids phone call to see what has happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mortitia Posted April 7, 2015 Report Share Posted April 7, 2015 Don't stop paying rent - that will lead to eviction. Eviction can take months so be calm and most councils won't offer help until a Section 21 notice is received by the tenants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karenrobinson Posted April 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2015 They cannot evict as there is no current valid agreement in place. The result of meeting is as follows........ The property does not belong to the 'brother' of the restaurant manager, it transpires it belongs to the restaurant manager (he has just found out apparently). They threatened sec 21 but were informed they cannot evict for the above reason. Regarding the kids bond, the landlord states he refuses to put it into the bond scheme if it costs him anything and that they can rest assured it is perfectly safe in 'their safe in the restaurant (regardless of the law)'. Kept bleating on about the balance of the rent (which the kids are entitled to withold due to many prior comments and advice in this thread) After going round in circles, he left, ten mins later he rings to say he wants to organise a new rental agreement asap. We are still pressing forward with our meeting with Housing tomor. Que sera as they say. I will report back in this thread until it is concluded/resolved. Thank you all for your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karenrobinson Posted April 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 We have attended the meeting and the Local Authority has now taken over the case. They have instructed us not to pay any more rent as the Landlord is not legally entitled to it until he provides a residential address. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grampa Posted April 8, 2015 Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 Déjà vu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melboy Posted April 8, 2015 Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 Good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karenrobinson Posted April 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2015 The letters from the Council have arrived. My son's girlfriend has received hers. The Landlord arrives at his restaurant around 5ish this evening. Then I suspect the fireworks display will begin. I will update this evening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karenrobinson Posted April 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2015 Well, I arrived at the flat at 5.10pm this evening in preparation for the arrival of fireworks. Zilch, nothing. We know he's received it as we saw it, and then we saw him carrying it into the restaurant. Not a peep!!! Perhaps he was thrown off guard from the official letter from the authorities. Perhaps he will 'attack' tomor. Who can tell. I will update as and when events occur. Unless i'm not supposed to lol. I just feel I should conclude the story. I also hope that it gets rid of unprofessional 'Landlords' and 'screw merchants'. I hate injustice. You guys have taught me a lot in this particular area of which I had no knowledge. I thank you all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karenrobinson Posted April 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2015 PS. Turns out the Land registry search has resulted in the owner of the flat being a company (The restaurants name). So, If I am correct (please tell me if I'm wrong) a residential address is no longer needed for the tenancy to continue, the company address will do (according to the authorities). However, They are still unable to issue s21 due to the bond not being appropriately placed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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