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Section 8 Advice, please


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More for interest in this not enough soap used opera.

Tenant F has mounted 'camera's', only 1 real one.

Tenant C has seen these and is complaining to others.

The Police have told both Tenants C and D that they believe C to be the instigator, sort of told D to give over being his foot soldier.

Shortly after this C and D had a serious fall out, now D doesn't love C anymore.

C has cleaned a fair bit of the mess he created for fun.

All is quite, until.....

I am presently drawing up another S8 for tenant C. this to be accompanied with letters to him and guarantor. I imagine his gf g'tor has conveniently forgotten the responsibility she agreed to, in Deed, 2 years ago, a reminder has value. I intend to give a discreet opportunity for them to avoid the court costs, ie naff off now, after all I can always pursue them for dosh later. Ground 14 of a S8 enables me to proceed immediately following service of the notice.

Grampa Ground 8 is for overdue rents greater than 2 months. The rents aren't overdue by quite that but I remember you have a principle of 1 month and 1 day being good for this . Any assistance in how to apply this correctly would be appreciated.

Just a bit more 'for interest'.

Some will remember that of the 6 flats I own 5. The owner occupier of the other flat E being a right git over the years.

Yesterday he rang. He wants to go to live with his ex wife cousin 200 miles away and says he is selling. Now I've to consider the pro's and cons.

It's a lot more expensive than the TV licence but flippin' 'eck it's more entertaining too.

We need more camera's methinks, so I can sell the footage.

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Grampa Ground 8 is for overdue rents greater than 2 months. The rents aren't overdue by quite that but I remember you have a principle of 1 month and 1 day being good for this . Any assistance in how to apply this correctly would be appreciated.

Some will remember that of the 6 flats I own 5. The owner occupier of the other flat E being a right git over the years.

Yesterday he rang. He wants to go to live with his ex wife cousin 200 miles away and says he is selling. Now I've to consider the pro's and cons.

Regarding s8 and rent arrears, ground 8 which is the mandatory possession ground is 2 months rent owing which as you say 1 month and 1 day if the rent is payable pcm. So you can serve the s8 using grounds 8,10,11 after 1 month and 1 day. Grounds 10&11 are discretionary grounds relating to late payments etc and you fall back on these at the hearing if the tenant has brought the arrears below 2 months. I have got a possession order on ground 10&11 in the past so it is possible but not guaranteed.

If I were you I would consider buying the last flat in your block then buy the freehold which you normally have the right to do.

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Thanks again Grampa.

Buying the last flat and then the freehold calls for a new thread as you gents have much greater experience with the pros' and cons and may help my decisions here.

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Property in Wales may well turn out to be an excellent investment. Seems that 99% of Wales will escape any possibility of Shale Gas Fracking as its unsuitable. That's more than can be said for large areas of the UK.

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In answer to one of my previous questions.

· Whichever grounds are set out in section 3 of this form, the court may allow any of the other grounds to be added at a later date. If this is done, you will be told about it so you can discuss the additional grounds at the court hearing as well as the grounds set out in section 3.

As my 1st S8 wasn't absolutely correct I have opted to serve another, hopefully I have proof read this one so it is correct.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Once again I'm dealing with silly T's (ex T's?) rather than getting up that ladder.

Tenant C gave final meter reading for the elec on 10th June.

Remember he moved all stuff out by van on the 7th.

17th June he met the Housing Enforcement Officer to show how unlivablabe Flat C and Flat D are. Also showing other issues as he perceives around the site.

Tenant D didn't have access to his own keys so no viewing by the Officer, the complaints were toilet still not working (it flushed 1st time of trying yesterday), and the smell. The carpets have moldy pewk, the kitchen with moldy left over foods, a dog bowl in the kitchen.

The H Officer suggested to Tenant C that any issue as he perceived was down to his own lifestyle. He told the Officer that he would be gone from the flat by Sunday the 20th. I informed the Officer that on the strength of that I would be going down to, with video, gain entry, assess, and change the lock. A notice taped to the fr door informing of how to gain access (was photo'd). The Officer seemed happy with that. Yesterday that's what I did.

This morning Tenant C rang to say I had changed the locks (I knew this already) and mentioned the notice. He informed me of his Solicitor and says he will see me in Court. He rang off without requesting access.

My view is that I have good reason to believe abandonment.

I have shown how to make access available, if requested.

I doubt the Housing Officer will sympathise with the T.

I doubt the Police will have interest, btw I have reported him for criminal damages and theft from the flat and wrote the crime number on the notice .

As I have not progressed either of the S8 or S21, and bearing in mind that he has arrears, what feasible civil claim might be made ?

Other thoughts appreciated also.

As HB are still paying the claim for flat D I have left that in it's present state with original lock. It is definitely not fit for habitation but as far as I'm concerned he is still T.

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Cor you need to tread very carefully here because a notice to quit has to be in writing and though abandonment is a useful tool it has to be used with care.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1977/43/section/5

If you think this tenant will take it further I suggest you give him access back asap otherwise I think you will struggle to win if it went to court and the penalty could be harsh.

Remember the standard practice with abandonment is if the tenant calls to state they haven't vacated you have to let them back in.

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Thanks Grampa,

A little extra info.

Tenant C has been in contact with the HEO (Housing Officer). On informing him that I have changed the lock the HEO replied that the T had stated that he intended leaving on the 20th, the T then said he had even returned the keys to the woman that looks after the flats (my other T)

"well that would be considered by most to be you surrendering the flat." The T had belief that as he had paid rent till the end of this month he had right of access, of course he ignored the arrears with this view.

The HEO of course won't make definitive statements but has the opinion that the flat is surrendered, abandonment now seems to be no longer applicable.

The HEO has invited me to a meeting he has with T's C & D now that D has apparently found his key and can show the HEO how bad his flat is. Of course D can invite C as guest or whatever but I shall be questioning why C is involved as he is now an 'ex' T. If, as is likely, they are inebriated Police attendance will be requested.

Tenant C, or D for that matter, will not be granted access to his old flat. Once in I can't legally physically remove, outside he has no rights.

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The Police intend to be there. The WPC sees this as an opportunity to view the damage and consider the thefts by C. She intends that the Police will tell C that he has no cause to be on site and should he return they will consider actions against him to keep him away.

I must admit to feeling let down in the past by what the Police will not or, as they often state, cannot do. Maybe we will see something more pro active here ??

In the interests of prevention I've sent a text to D informing him that the condition of his flat is recorded on video, any further damage shall be considered criminal with legal consequences. He now knows that the Police and I will be present on Monday.

It's going to be a disposable suits and rubber gloves job when I do get his place back so I don't think the HEO will wish to spend long in there. The WPC has experience of the condition of his flat and wishes to express her view to the HEO.

"I've been there when he's sleeping on the sofa, the horrible smell is strong, he was drunk and there is food all over the carpet. I didn't want to go beyond the lounge" you enter directly into the lounge.

Still gonna be bloody expensive though. Still us millionaires can afford it can't we ?

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Whoa! That was like reading War and Peace. So did you get a possession order Cor?

Downside of Section 8 is that tenant(s) can claim 'disrepair' (even though they may have done it themselves), the judge adjourns S8 case for 'reports' and that scuppers your Section 21 which would have guaranteed you possession if you could hang on that long.

On the whole I find the police useless - anything to do with tenancy is automatically 'a civil matter' and they beat a hasty retreat. That phrase is no doubt drummed into them at training camp.

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On the whole I find the police useless - anything to do with tenancy is automatically 'a civil matter' and they beat a hasty retreat. That phrase is no doubt drummed into them at training camp.

...........and no camera crew following them will mean definitely not interested. :D

Our local Copper is not too bad actually and he does at least pick up the phone on a 101 call.

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To date I haven't progressed any repossession claim.

The Police have offered to supply me with an impact statement detailing their numerous visits and reasons, largely demonstrating my S8 claim of anti social behaviours. Although offered when I was requested to repossess ASAP to ease their burden it hasn't been a priority so I still wait for that.

As Tenant C has departed and informed the HEO of his surrender repossession is unnecessary.

Tenant D still has the portion of his rent paid by HB, his S21 expires on 31st July. As I still have flat 2 empty largely due to their antics and them having conversations with viewers I prefer to at least have the income from HB. Things may change on Monday but so far I'm 'happy' to close the door on that flat and ignore.

Tenant C's guarantor seems not to be working now, pretty much since selling her home. It looks like the sale could have been forced to pay debts and plausibly she has walked away from employment to avoid her wages being taken at source??

My intention there will be to go for a CCJ anyway but I wouldn't do either the favour of making them bankrupt as that would just allow a fresh start in a year or so. Researching if she has opted for voluntary bankruptcy would be reasonable as I assume I could claim on her later when she becomes discharged.??

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