online letting agent

[Melboy]

An EPC for rental property is valid for 10 years and not 5 years.

[Chestnut]

Toursound: Quote from Lets-Rent terms and conditions -

"When a tenant clicks the Lets-Rent It feature Lets-Rent will require them to pay a Holding Deposit of £200 for agreements with 2 tenants or less, and another £100 per tenant after this."

Free to Landlord? It may appear so, but I doubt it.

Nowhere did I say it is hard work, but it can be.

ps. Their search facility has no properties on books in my central UK region for tenants to look at.....

[Grampa]

I understand this andf thats fair enough. But if you could answer my original question.

Yes I charge the tenants a reference fee of £100. I don't believe a letting agent can survive and do a proper job of if (with a high st location) without charging some sort of extra fee unless they are charging at least 12% + and have a good size portfolio. (250+)

I even listed the overheads for a letting agent on another topic showing it wasn't viable as a business with 150 properties at 7.5% without ref fees as the overheads were higher than the income. Unless done on a shoestring which means service suffering.

But what you seem to forget when you use a agent you are also paying for their experience and legal knowledge (which I accept some don't have) it a similar manner to you using a solicitor.

Do you do have the skill, knowledge expertise to be able to promptly deal with basic issues such as:

1. Filling out within correct timescales S21, S8 S13. knowing which grounds are discretionary and which are mandatory. When a s13 can and cant be used for a rent increase. Which procedure needs you to attend court and which one doesn't.
2. When you can use the council to your benefit for HB and non HB tenants.
3. If your tenant loses their job and goes on HB how soon and you get the council to pay it directly you and what to quote to make them.
4. Abandonment, is it legal? When to use it and how to protect yourself.
5. HMO's. Do you know that allowing a small change to the tenancy could make your property a HMO and how that would effect serving notice on your tenants. Plus of course all the legal requirements of being a landlord of a HMO.
6. Do you have access to the latest changes it letting law. Its not like 20 years ago as many on this site will confirm.
7. What if your tenant doesn't want to use the property as their primary home (holidays or weekends) would you know if you can use the same contract and how it would effect any deposit protection..

I could go on and on and this is basic stuff.

[toursound]

Toursound: Quote from Lets-Rent terms and conditions -

"When a tenant clicks the Lets-Rent It feature Lets-Rent will require them to pay a Holding Deposit of £200 for agreements with 2 tenants or less, and another £100 per tenant after this."

Free to Landlord? It may appear so, but I doubt it.

Nowhere did I say it is hard work, but it can be.

ps. Their search facility has no properties on books in my central UK region for tenants to look at.....

Chesnut

You can doubt all you want, but the facts are there to see. They're perfectly clear and transparent about what they charge. Its simple I will lay it out even clearer here if you would like.

The holding deposit you quote above is just that. Its a holding deposit that the tenant pays to take the property off the market just like a traditional agent does. Its a holding deposit, not a fee and its paid for by the tenant.

The service is completely FREE for landlords. This includes advertising, tenant referencing, tenancy agreements, deposit registration and first months rent collection.

They quite openly and clearly state that they charge the tenant £85 for referencing and this is how they make there money.

Thats all they charge.

Now you can doubt all you want chestnut. But they are the facts. I know you probably don't like that there offering these service so cheap. But that doesn't make it not true. They have a completely different business model to yourself.

As for the fact they don't have any properties near you. Well i'm pretty sure you don't have properties near myself? does that make you somewhat a bad agent? No. There clearly new to the national market so have a small amount of properties right now. Im sure that will change. I haven't got a crystal ball. But you cannot use that as a negative? well you can is your scrapping at the bottom of the barrel mate.

[toursound]

Yes I charge the tenants a reference fee of £100. I don't believe a letting agent can survive and do a proper job of if (with a high st location) without charging some sort of extra fee unless they are charging at least 12% + and have a good size portfolio. (250+)

I even listed the overheads for a letting agent on another topic showing it wasn't viable as a business with 150 properties at 7.5% without ref fees as the overheads were higher than the income. Unless done on a shoestring which means service suffering.

But what you seem to forget when you use a agent you are also paying for their experience and legal knowledge (which I accept some don't have) it a similar manner to you using a solicitor.

Do you do have the skill, knowledge expertise to be able to promptly deal with basic issues such as:

1. Filling out within correct timescales S21, S8 S13. knowing which grounds are discretionary and which are mandatory. When a s13 can and cant be used for a rent increase. Which procedure needs you to attend court and which one doesn't.
2. When you can use the council to your benefit for HB and non HB tenants.
3. If your tenant loses their job and goes on HB how soon and you get the council to pay it directly you and what to quote to make them.
4. Abandonment, is it legal? When to use it and how to protect yourself.
5. HMO's. Do you know that allowing a small change to the tenancy could make your property a HMO and how that would effect serving notice on your tenants. Plus of course all the legal requirements of being a landlord of a HMO.
6. Do you have access to the latest changes it letting law. Its not like 20 years ago as many on this site will confirm.
7. What if your tenant doesn't want to use the property as their primary home (holidays or weekends) would you know if you can use the same contract and how it would effect any deposit protection..

I could go on and on and this is basic stuff.

Grampa.

The lines are getting quite blurred here.

Stop just listing the services you provide without clearly explain what i'm paying for.

Your comparing to different things Lets Rent do not offer a management service. I know this. I know if i wanted to that i would use a local agent.

But your also skirting around the issues of if i take up your management service do i pay you a find fee?

Also if we want a true comparison. What do you charge for a tenant only find? And what do i get. Please don list yet more things related to your management service. Which don't get me wrong sounds comprehensive but is irrelevant.

[Grampa]

Grampa.

But your also skirting around the issues of if i take up your management service do i pay you a find fee?

What do you charge for a tenant only find? And what do i get. Please don list yet more things related to your management service.

Quote from your earlier reply to my first post "I am unable to see there value for money."

So that was what I was listing in my other posts, what you get for full management

Find fee = No

Cant tell you what you get because you don't want another list.

[toursound]

Quote from your earlier reply to my first post "I am unable to see there value for money."

So that was what I was listing in my other posts, what you get for full management

Find fee = No

Cant tell you what you get because you don't want another list.

If you dont charge a find fee for your management service thats pretty good. Not for me, but thats quite competitive. If its true.

So lets compare your find service with lets rent. What do you do? And what do you charge?

Id love another list, just a relevant one and on topic. Lets forget your management service. Lets stay on topic and tell me about your tenant find service. Price and whats included.

[Antnkel]

Take it you have something to do with let's rent.

[toursound]

Take it you have something to do with let's rent.

Not at all, started this thread mentioning the two services I've found that interested me. Im currently refurbishing a house and am going to be using Lets Rent next week. Only because they where the most value service i could find online. I cant vouch for them yet, but i will keep the forum updated on how my experiences are with them. They could be disastrous i don't know. They could be great. I will report back.

Im only defending them because I don't like standard scare tactics that people use to justify services that are what i believe to be over priced for what they do. Don't get me wrong i have nothing against traditional agents, they will always exist. For people who want an easy life they are great. These are the people who get there phone line off BT, there mortgages from there bank and holidays direct from Thomas cook. They like the easiness of the service and don't mind paying for it. I shop around. But don't tell me that a certain companies service isn't as good as XYZ just because there £500 cheaper. The 2 business models are obviously quite different but that doesn't mean that the results will be any different.

Im not sticking up for Lets Rent just common sense.

[Mortitia]

HE DOTH PROTEST TOO MUCH - There is not doubt in my mind that Toursound is connected in some way with Lets Rent.

Boring.....

[Richlist]

Whilst I can understand where the OP is coming from......wants value for money and doesn't want to pay for things he doesn't think he needs he is missing an important point. Let me see if I can explain.....

In my 13 years & hundreds of lettings I can say that no two tenancies have been the same. Every applicant is different, wants different things, behaves differently, has different standards etc etc.

We could all find a friend who could deal with our rental property for free.....who thinks they know how to handle things and provided nothing went wrong and they were lucky the rent would come in, there would be no serious issues and everyone would be happy BUT this business is really about risk and minimising it. When it goes wrong it happens quickly and can be expensive and often a lengthy and labour intensive job to put right.

So, the best approach is to minimise that risk. Many landlords don't make any effort.......they employ agents who have little knowledge or experience, have ASTs without covering clauses, don't bother with inventories or guarantors or rent guarantee insurance etc etc.

Grampa has, by listing his examples of what his agency offers (firstly 29 points and then a further 7 examples) given some indication of the kinds of requirements a landlord might need to fall back on should it all go wrong.

Letting property is not an easy business......especially if you are new and have no experience. Oversimplifying the business will not ensure you escape the risks.

[Melboy]

I would concur with RL comments. It's all about minimising the risk from day one and as a Landlord for over 20 years and having made what I consider to be now some pretty stupid basic errors in the early days and years and paid the price I now enjoy a relatively peaceful existance with my tenants.

[toursound]

HE DOTH PROTEST TOO MUCH - There is not doubt in my mind that Toursound is connected in some way with Lets Rent.

Boring.....

Im in no way connected to Lets Rent but if you really would like believe that, by all means continue. The reasons i'm protesting i have already explained in my last post. Because reasoning is obviously protesting.......

Whilst I can understand where the OP is coming from......wants value for money and doesn't want to pay for things he doesn't think he needs he is missing an important point. Let me see if I can explain.....

In my 13 years & hundreds of lettings I can say that no two tenancies have been the same. Every applicant is different, wants different things, behaves differently, has different standards etc etc.

We could all find a friend who could deal with our rental property for free.....who thinks they know how to handle things and provided nothing went wrong and they were lucky the rent would come in, there would be no serious issues and everyone would be happy BUT this business is really about risk and minimising it. When it goes wrong it happens quickly and can be expensive and often a lengthy and labour intensive job to put right.

So, the best approach is to minimise that risk. Many landlords don't make any effort.......they employ agents who have little knowledge or experience, have ASTs without covering clauses, don't bother with inventories or guarantors or rent guarantee insurance etc etc.

Grampa has, by listing his examples of what his agency offers (firstly 29 points and then a further 7 examples) given some indication of the kinds of requirements a landlord might need to fall back on should it all go wrong.

Letting property is not an easy business......especially if you are new and have no experience. Oversimplifying the business will not ensure you escape the risks.

Please don't confuse the fact that i'm oversimplifying letting a property. I understand its hardwork, time consuming and most probably like a game of chess if you end up with bad tenants. I have the time to self manage, im pretty clued up on the law and have done lots and lots of research. Dont get me wrong im sure it'll be all different when im up and running and have a tenant in my property. However i believe i can do it and so am going to have a go.

But this whole discussion is like comparing a family car and a sports car. Sure grampa's service sounds good and comprehensive, but its a full management service. Its not something i want and its not something im willing to pay for. Yet people are dismissing Lets Rent when they don't even offer said service. And its free. Its free. I have nothing to loose. If in 2 weeks time i have had no tenants or only poor tenants applying. I will simply go somewhere else. Ive lost nothing. I could go with a local agent (which there of thousands of awful ones around) along with some good ones,pay a fee and still end up in the same position.

The AST you mention cropped up in my mind 2 weeks ago. I emailed both Openrent and Lets Rent and they both emailed me a copy of the AST they used to look over. Both slightly different but both comprehensive and had everything in that the ARLA AST has some I'm not worried about that side of things at all.

I would concur with RL comments. It's all about minimising the risk from day one and as a Landlord for over 20 years and having made what I condsider to be now some pretty stupid basic errors in the early days and years and paid the price I now enjoy a relatively peaceful existant with my tenants.

Theres a fine line between minimising risk and over paying for something. If its one thing i've learnt from research, speaking to other landlords and forums. The single most biggest decision you can make is selecting the correct tenant. Would you agree? I think i can do the same if not a better job than an agent doing that. I will meet every tenant that wants to view my property and i will be asking them as many questions as they will me about my property.

[Chestnut]

Quotes Toursound OP stated 3 pages ago:

"Already asked this over @ landlordforumproject but still awaiting a any response...." Are we surprised?!

"....please go easy on me." This doesn't seem to be reciprocated!!


"Anyway would like to know who people have used before and the pros and cons of an online agent."

"Let me know" 3 pages later you have lots of answers and comment from experienced landlords and agents! What more could you want?

"thanks in advance." OK - appreciated. Now it's time you went away and tried it! Good luck!

[toursound]

Quotes Toursound OP stated 3 pages ago:

"Already asked this over @ landlordforumproject but still awaiting a any response...." Are we surprised?!

"....please go easy on me." This doesn't seem to be reciprocated!!

"Anyway would like to know who people have used before and the pros and cons of an online agent."

"Let me know" 3 pages later you have lots of answers and comment from experienced landlords and agents! What more could you want?

"thanks in advance." OK - appreciated. Now it's time you went away and tried it! Good luck!

Your'e correct i have all the information i require. This topic has completely lost topic. Im in know way here for a slanging match. I just wanted unbiased advice, i recieved that of some people but not others thats all I've merely tried to defend. I shall go away, go with my original idea. They ney sayers may have the last laugh but i shall report back either way.

Thanks for your everyones input, it was appreciated either way.

[Rayhan]

This forum is amazing.

It says Residential Landlord on the door, yet inside it's full of agents (traditional and online).

I really wanted to see a thread on genuine experiences of people using online agents.

Instead I find blinkered estate agents not understanding why the long list of things they do for their fee is not of interest to landlords who self-manage.

The fact of the matter is agents used to do marketing and managing; but now Rightmove does the marketing.

So if Rightmove does the marketing, we're obviously looking to get our properties on Rightmove.

Whether an online agent or traditional, it isn't the agent that gets the tenants, it's Rightmove.

As a side note: agents are not qualified to dispense legal advice. That's pretty much illegal.

It's also illegal (extortion) to charge tenants spurious fees. It's certainly illegal (Trading Standards ruling) to not clearly itemise agent fees up-front. I'd like to think I'm protecting my tenants from being extorted by people with a failing business model when I avoid both online and traditional agents.

It would also be nice if the agents could make way for some landlords to share their experiences, so that other landlords can make up their own minds. We don't need to be bullied into submission by agents and their lists of unwanted features.

[toursound]

This forum is amazing.

It says Residential Landlord on the door, yet inside it's full of agents (traditional and online).

I really wanted to see a thread on genuine experiences of people using online agents.

Instead I find blinkered estate agents not understanding why the long list of things they do for their fee is not of interest to landlords who self-manage.

The fact of the matter is agents used to do marketing and managing; but now Rightmove does the marketing.

So if Rightmove does the marketing, we're obviously looking to get our properties on Rightmove.

Whether an online agent or traditional, it isn't the agent that gets the tenants, it's Rightmove.

As a side note: agents are not qualified to dispense legal advice. That's pretty much illegal.

It's also illegal (extortion) to charge tenants spurious fees. It's certainly illegal (Trading Standards ruling) to not clearly itemise agent fees up-front. I'd like to think I'm protecting my tenants from being extorted by people with a failing business model when I avoid both online and traditional agents.

It would also be nice if the agents could make way for some landlords to share their experiences, so that other landlords can make up their own minds. We don't need to be bullied into submission by agents and their lists of unwanted features.

Hear Hear!!

[Melboy]

' Erm there are quite a few contributer's to this forum who are not LA's or EA's.

Have you read back over some of the older topics to gain your answer to your question?

[Chestnut]

The disappointing state of this thread is, as Rayhan has observed, that there appears to have been no response from users of on-line agents, and yet a most extensively drawn out defence by O Poster. I wonder why that is? Should I draw my own conclusions?!!!!

As previously stated, I'm DIY landlord - not any sort of agent.

[toursound]

The disappointing state of this thread is, as Rayhan has observed, that there appears to have been no response from users of on-line agents, and yet a most extensively drawn out defence by O Poster. I wonder why that is? Should I draw my own conclusions?!!!!

As previously stated, I'm DIY landlord - not any sort of agent.

A response from users of online agents would be good. You are correct it is disappointing.

Ive stated my position several times. Draw your own conclusions. Thats your choice.