laverda Posted October 12, 2007 Report Share Posted October 12, 2007 with property values slowing, interest rates rising,deposit protection schemes, couincil tax now payable as soon as property becomes empty by landlord. I am feeling that the buy to let investment is now not becoming fesable could posibly earn more with money sat in a bank account with a lot less hastle wot are your oppinions on this is it time to sell up I feel that buy to let has had its day would be interested to hear other peoples veiws on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Dewsberry Posted October 12, 2007 Report Share Posted October 12, 2007 with property values slowing, interest rates rising,deposit protection schemes, couincil tax now payable as soon as property becomes empty by landlord. I am feeling that the buy to let investment is now not becoming fesable could posibly earn more with money sat in a bank account with a lot less hastle wot are your oppinions on this is it time to sell up I feel that buy to let has had its day would be interested to hear other peoples veiws on this. A VERY fair question.....and for some definately time to get out !! The goal posts have been moving around a lot lately ...and i think will move quite a bit more ...trying to plan for future changes is getting very difficult and will certainly give the sector a shake out ...which a lot of parties think is very necesary It certainl is not a place for the faint hearted ...the last few years have been great ..and some will take the profit and run ...a lot of potential future changes could leave LL in a vey tight position ...the guys who have bought and are subsidising M payments are in for a rough time over the next few years ...but I believe that if you have reasonable equity, good rental profit margin,and a strong rental demand then you should survive to tell the tale!! couincil tax now payable as soon as property becomes empty by landlord When did that start ?? I'm still claiming exemption for Unoccupied and unfurnished ....... Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melboy Posted October 13, 2007 Report Share Posted October 13, 2007 Money programme last night on BBC2 summed it all up really and if you can, watch the re-run on your computer. I guess everyone has a view on what is happening or about to happen so here is my view for what it is worth. BTL at the moment does not make any financial sense if you are entering to make money in the short to medium term. There is very little capital growth around at the moment in property investment. If you buy on a BTL Mortgage than your repayments are unlikely to cover all the costs involved and you will be out of pocket every single month. Cash buyer? (like me! ) Why spend £150k when you can get a better return with no hassle at 6.5% at present? Everyman and his dog is a property developer these days so the chance of picking up bargain properties refurbishing them and renting them out as I did 15 years ago is slowly diminishing I reckon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selkirk Posted October 14, 2007 Report Share Posted October 14, 2007 Everyone to their own. From what I read btl is propping up the market at the moment, it appears people are piling in but that's just what I'm reading. With pension schemes getting worse, closing their final salary and the gov. taxing them more and more it does seems feasible, not to mention the supply and demand side and the recent change in cap gains tax. You should only go by your own opinion so make sure it's an informed one, the one thing I decided before I started with this lark was that it was never going to be a short to medium term thing, I won't be buying any more just yet as I see it as a time for consolidation but I will keep my powder dry and see how things develop, it's a forever evolving market. cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tw104419 Posted November 9, 2007 Report Share Posted November 9, 2007 As a keen golfer the amount of contradictory advice is endlessly confusing. Whats this got to do with the housing market I hear you ask?.... Well the same contradictory advice is applicable in the housing market & in particular the BTL market with the so called experts scaremongering. At the end of the day the facts are that property has its peaks and troughs and like any other investment vehicle you have the choice as to whether you invest or not, and like any investment you should do your own due diligence and take the correct advise from people who are more knowledgable than you where you can get your questions answered before you make a decision. In the absence of a crystal ball even the so called experts cant predict the future,however what these same experts also predict is that despite the unknown property still remains the number one investment product that constantly out performs all other investments. As we dont wish to use this post to advertise and be accused of spam,we invite interested parties to feel free to request some property examples of what we provide and see for yourself how the figures add up.....then you decide! We look forward to hearing from you,and take this opportunity to wish you everything you wish yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pugsy Posted November 9, 2007 Report Share Posted November 9, 2007 You should only ever do what is right for you and not be pressurised by tabloid fever or the sheep who follow. If one has bought for the wrong reasons in recent time, it is a possibility it may be better to sell, but hopefully most of us have been more savvy. I am selling a couple of props at the moment but for diverse reasons, I have also just bought a real cracker, so each to their own. As soon as the Spanish market has finished crashing I hope to pick up a bargain here too. But cash is king and key to riding out the storm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melboy Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 I was at a dinner party last Saturday night with family and friends and the 'Father' of buy to lets was at the table and I have to confess 20 years ago he got me interested in BTL . So here is a man with 38 properties now, would anyone like to guess how long he has had them? His Father built them in 1936/7/8/9 for rental and they passed to him when his father died. Did he sell them in 1986? No! does he intend to sell any off? No! The average price built in 1936 was around £300. The average valuation now is £250,000 ( Outer London). Just think how many peaks and troughs those properties have been through then eh! "So why aren't you even thinking of selling even just one? "I asked "Because I don't need the money" was the reply. A piece of advice for all I reckon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Dewsberry Posted November 14, 2007 Report Share Posted November 14, 2007 Bxxxxy hell Mel If some one gave me 38 props unencumbered ...i shouldn't think i would "need" the money either !!!! LOL Likewise if someone paid off my portfolio borrowings and i had all the rent as income ...i wouldn't think i would "need" to sell !!!! Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fard_uk Posted December 18, 2007 Report Share Posted December 18, 2007 Dear Simon, I'm in the process of buying a buy to let using the equity from my existing property which I bought in London and which has been successfully let. The new proprty will also be in London. The location seems ideal as its very close to the proposed new extension of the circular over-ground due to complete in 2010 and is a large one-bed Georgian period conversion flat 15 minutes from the 'city' district. Everyone is urging me not to risk the equity gain of my existing flat which will incur an increase in mortgage payment as a result of pulling out some equity. Whatsmore, the rental income in both properties 'should' exceed the total mortgage interest payment in total by ~£200- the new purchase will slightly subsidise the existing let. Am I mad as an inexperienced landlord in my late 20's to embark at a time when there's rumour of a fall in house prices? Also, do you know much about the london market? I live in Wales now but grew up there hence I have a feel for the areas. Many thanks in advance for your help. Pez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Posted December 18, 2007 Report Share Posted December 18, 2007 There has never been a period in the last 10 years when someone is not saying.....we are at the top of the market and there will be another crash. They were saying this about 6 years ago when I bought my first property with my Brother, for £128,000. My brother still owns it and it is now worth about £230,000. Whenever you buy there is a risk. What advice I would give is that when margins are tight it is best to fix your mortgage to protect yourself from future interest rate changes - you may lose out, but at least you know where you are. I am not to confident about the current market at the moment, and probably wouldn't be looking at buying anymore....I think price increases will be pretty flat for maybe a 5 year period....so makes propery investment a pretty bad idea if you are not making big profits from your rentals. So as the others have said, buy below the market value and buys properties with potential to add value - this way you are more protected if prices do fall. There is also concern there is currently a false market, whereby prices are being kept artificially high as very few Landlords are selling their properties at the moment and are waiting for the CGT change in April 2008 (40% tax down to 18% (this is still not confirmed though I beleive)), when many will sell, this in itself could spark significant price drops, if, and its a big if, loads of Landlords do decide to sell in April 2008. I do have a feeling that if price increases are very flat over the next 5 years, new landlords are going to be pretty annoyed that they have subsidised their buy-to-lets and gone through all the hassles that comes with letting properties for 5 years, and find out the property is worth exactly what they paid for it. This will be particularly annoying, since if they started 5 years ago, the price would have doubled. So timing is very important. In summary I would only invest now if it were a cracking deal or if you really are in it for the long haul 10 - 15 years. That's my opinion anyhow...others are very welcome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Dewsberry Posted December 19, 2007 Report Share Posted December 19, 2007 Hi Pez I dont have a crystal ball....! wish i did ! £200 sounds a bit tight to me ...but i also have a couple of props which are "overmortgaged" but this makes up a small and accetable (and justifiable!) proportion and percentage of my investment portfolio ...i guess it comes down to your view on risk level (without being down right foolish!) rentable demand for both props ...rental values holding or moving etc and everything Mat has pointed out above plus a whole lot more besides! In principal i wouldn't say "No dont do it" .....i would make sure you have every eventuality covered ...BUT the "should" exceed .......in your post did tinkle my alarm bell a little !!!!! Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odecar Posted December 20, 2007 Report Share Posted December 20, 2007 Work on assumption that the £200 is zero as will have to do the safety checks, some minor repairs etc etc. Key thing is can you subsidise the 2 by £300 a month in total were things to get really bad. If yes then you know you have a £500 cushion per month if necessary in worst case scenario and that rarely happens. Long as you pay the mort and rent comes in then you secure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molly's dad Posted December 20, 2007 Report Share Posted December 20, 2007 I have some friends who have fixed rates ending in 2008, that remortgaged to 85% with a 2.5% arr fee which basically makes an 87.5% mortgage and they are going to feel the pinch when it comes to re-valuation time...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fard_uk Posted December 24, 2007 Report Share Posted December 24, 2007 Thank you very much indeed Simon, Apparently the numbers are more favourable than I thought with a £300 profit margin. I'm looking to sell my first flat in 2 years and consolidate the equity in just one with the intention of paying it off when I become a GP. Many thanks for your advice, it's very valued. Pez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul99 Posted January 3, 2008 Report Share Posted January 3, 2008 with property values slowing, interest rates rising,deposit protection schemes, couincil tax now payable as soon as property becomes empty by landlord. I am feeling that the buy to let investment is now not becoming fesable could posibly earn more with money sat in a bank account with a lot less hastle wot are your oppinions on this is it time to sell up I feel that buy to let has had its day would be interested to hear other peoples veiws on this. It's clearly a tricky time at the mo and a reality check for some, but looking at the bigger picture there has always been peaks and troughs, and always will be. As long as you have an intelligent approach, sound advice, sturdy due diligence and a mid-long term view, property will remain the most tenacious of investments. Most of the folk here don't seem to be panicking and I'd have to agree, just ride it out if at all possible - One thing I can say for certain, we have no intention of pulling out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Dewsberry Posted January 4, 2008 Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 I think the next year will be a very good time to invest....ALWAYS bargains to be had ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunx1 Posted January 4, 2008 Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 I think it has been a good run on buy to let but I am selling the rest of my BTL after the tax changes later this year. One of the main issues is that defaults on rent will probably get higher as lending tightens further and I don't want the hassle of this. Also I can see a reverse in immigration if jobs do start to dry up a little. Also I think the price declines may be longer and more painful this time than expected. all IMHO but there were a lot of people who make money on the way up but not that many who are smart enough to say thank you and cash their ticket before things change... best of luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Posted January 4, 2008 Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 But if everybody cashed their tickets like you are when the CGT rules change, you may bee too late as that would spark a huge collapse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Dewsberry Posted January 4, 2008 Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 And then there would also be an even bigger shortage of rental prop ...driving rents higher and higher .......yep the more that sell up the better i am feeling !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trenners Posted January 4, 2008 Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 Hi everyone (and a Happy New Year), I've just purchased a couple of brand new 3 bedroom properties and I remain very bullish on B2L in 2008. OK - house prices aren't rising as fast as they were (although this is localised) and maybe house prices won't go up at all for a year or two or three and maybe house prices will fall. AM I BOTHERED ? DOES MY FACE LOOK BOTHERED ? No ..... because I wasn't selling !! I'm not interested what house prices are doing, I'm not going to try and guess the market (otherwise I would have stopped buying property in 2001 when all the experts predicted a crash and would have missed out on the 100% gains since then), I'm investing for the long term. If house prices stagnate or start to fall then monthly rents will rise and void periods will be eradicated as tenants rush to rent rather than to buy. This is a fundamental principle. These people have got to live somewhere and, if they are not buying they must be renting. So, although my annual yield (derived from capital growth) is likely to stagnate for a while - my monthly yield (derived from rental income) is going up and up and up and up and up. Rents are up 15%+ in my area in the last 12 months. My advice - invest for the long term, get a tenant, keep a tenant and ignore the doomongers ....... Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Dewsberry Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 Here here ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ295 Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 just had a call today from an agent for a repo 2 bed house, keep em coming i say! i see you like the "other" forum simon. russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Dewsberry Posted January 6, 2008 Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 Yep credit card "stoozing" as you guys all know a pastime i am very fond of !!! Shall we tell em russ ??!!! Go check out http://www.stoozing.com/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.pl for a whole new perspective on raising deposits or even buying prop outright for "cash" cant take the credit for finding it tho Russ told me about it ...nice one chap! Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPEL Posted January 6, 2008 Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 Stoozing is a dreadful word but something I've been doing for several years - took £12k from Lloyds interest free with no fee or repayment period 3 years ago and just done the same with Virgin and happy to absorb the fee. Paying tax bill with credit allowance, paying off card with min payment only and split outstanding amount by 15 months and will put payment in to a high interest ISA, paying off the credfit card at last possible minute before charges incurred. An earlier post of mine led to Martin Lewis' page and they'll even send you an SMS/email reminder when the card payment is due. Not for the undisciplined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul99 Posted January 6, 2008 Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 My advice - invest for the long term, get a tenant, keep a tenant and ignore the doomongers ....... Mark Well said that man! I realise it's a case of 'you would say that', but getting I'm fed up of over zealous doom mongering, some almost seem to take a spiteful pleasure in it, but those types rarely have the commercial fortitude to see the bigger picture and make the serious money! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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