15 replies to this topic

[Darren H]

Hi could do with some advice,

I have a buy to let property and have owned this for 6 years now and had no problems with any of my tenants up until now. Basically I let my 2 bed flat to a woman Debbie of about 45 years old looking for a long term tenancy. I usually ask for rent in advance plus deposit on moving in day before I give them the keys. This time I didn't and that was the 7th March 2012. She has now been in my flat for over 6 weeks and no sign of rent or deposit but plenty of excuses about her personal life!!!
Now I wok away so the day she moved in I signed and left the contract and itinery of items for her read and to sign. The contract stated that the rent was £500 per month payable each month starting the 7th Mar and deposit to be paid £500, to be arranged. She hasn't given me the contract which is a short term assured for 3 months or any rent at all. I have phoned her to resolve this and all I get is lies.
What is my way forward as I'm getting fed up!!!

Regards

Darren

[Mortitia]

Seems you have got very complacent having had 6 years of good tenants! This is not the way to do business so never leave a signed agreement with a tenant again or allow one in without referencing her first or getting cleared funds from tenant in your bank.

I would argue that this lady has a tenancy so to get rid of her you will need to issue a Section 21 (read carefully on this site or get an experienced solicitor to do it. This gives the tenant 2 months notice then if she does not go you will have to apply for a court order and maybe even the bailiff to remove her. You have not managed to get a deposit but if one appears you must protect it to make your S21 valid.


Alternatively you could try offering her money to go!

Mortitia

[Melboy]

You dropped your guard Darren and have allowed this Tenant to take you for a Mug.

You either get paid or you get rid of her which is going to take time.

You could offer her money to leave but it is unlikely she would accept.

Learn from this.....as a Landlord you need to make sure all the i's are dotted and the t's crossed and trust no one not even your Granny.

[COR]

Similar to Mortitia and Mel you have allowed yourself to be stuffed, in my view this is the start. Any 'on trust' with a tenancy leaves the LL at risk.

My expectation would be that you won't see the contract, deposit, or monies that She has no reason to provide.
A tenancy does exist as from 7th March 2012, but you need to consider ways to demonstrate this as evidence may be required.
Using a section 21 She is there till after a 6 month period, your idea of a 3 month AST has no value. Effectively 6 month is the minimum.

For fastest repossession you need to follow the section 8 route. When rents are more than 2 months in arrears you can use this. Rents need to be more than 2 months arrears at hearing date also. Research carefully about S8 or use a professional service. The High St Solicitor often screws these thing up so be careful with your trust again, there are complications and traps waiting for the unwary.

You haven't mentioned but She sounds like HB, apply to receive the rent direct from them.

Keep communications recorded, in print where possible. Keep them polite and professional to reduce the 'harassment' claims.
Where disrepair is claimed again keep record of remedial action, or attempted remedial action.

I find the best way to shift these gits is to be professional and precise. I recite legislation where appropriate, it can scare 'em, but first you need know it.
Dump any emotion, it gets in the way and works to their advantage.

[LAW]

sorry there is no such thing as a 3 month shorthold assured tenancy, the minimum term is 6 months. As it stands you could issue a s.8 notice based on arrears of rent but you do not currently have a mandatory ground for possession i.e two months arrears.

[COR]

Actually LAW She is already in arrears by 2 months.
First month was due on 7th March, and I assume the second on 7th April. This is a usual and believable situation at least.
Rents are usually in advance.

The OP does need to create a statement of rents to track this. Sending to the T and recording this is an advantage.
This would be needed for HB to get the rents direct, if applicable.
Any claim for the deposit wants to be by separate letter so as not to confuse the rents due.

[Grampa]

sorry there is no such thing as a 3 month shorthold assured tenancy, the minimum term is 6 months. As it stands you could issue a s.8 notice based on arrears of rent but you do not currently have a mandatory ground for possession i.e two months arrears.

The housing act was amended. It used to be the minimum term was 6 months but you can now do one for as short as you wish. You still cannot get a possession order before 6 months though.

The 6 month rule was abolished by section 96 Housing Act 1996.

[Grampa]

One advantage of doing a 3 month tenancy is the 2 months notice of any s21 served could end on the last day of the 3rd month and although you wouldnt get a possession order before 6 months you can start the process sooner which could shave a fairly bit of time off getting possession.

[LAW]

I did not want to set out all of the nuances brought about by s.19a Housing Act 1988, needless to say he is stuck with his tenant for at least 6 months. I have on a number of occasions dealt with landlords who have granted 3 month tenancies in the believe that they could issue their claim for possession after 3 months. Indeed there is no requirement for a tenancy to be for any fixed term at all however a tenant will always have the protection of s.21(5) Housing Act 1988. I take your point on the service of the s.21 Notice however this is not going to save any time in issuing this claim. Where you have a written tenancy agreement you would be issuing this as an accelerated claim, in a case with no written agreement then you would need to have a hearing, in either case you would not be able to issue prior to the expiration of 6 months, as would be the case if you were dealing with the customary 6 month agreement where you had issued the appropriate s.21b notice.

[LAW]

The claim for arrears under grounds 8,10 and 11 would also depend on an express provision within the agreement.

[LAW]

Cor take you point on the level of arrears, I had not looked at the dates properly, and as you point out depends on whether the rent is payable in advance. If she is on HB then isnt it the case that a tenant has to be in 8 weeks arrears prior to landlord direct payments being effective. Even if this was the case landlord DP can be a poison chalice as overpayments (common with hb tenants) are recovered from the landlord.

[COR]

Yes LAW direct HB payments always have the risk of there being a requirement to repay to HB where a payment is found later to be incorrect.
This can be appealed, Grampa recently gave some useful information on how to try for this.
At least you've had the payment and may lose some or all. If never paid direct it's likely you'll never see any in a case like this.

If She is living there it is likely that any HB will be valid and correct, as it is I have assumed that She is enjoying this revenue. Removing that attraction is also a good tool for shifting her on, possibly to another soft touch LL.
No insult intended Darren as many of us have learned the hard way.

In the past I have hastened the payments not being paid to the T by making a phone call. Payments won't be diverted to the LL until the 'evidence' of arrears is received by HB but the allocation of payments to T were ceased on that day, so just a little more to LL later.
My evidence is my letter that accompanies the statement, for some daft reason they return this to me as copied.

I view that as long as T find it so easy to abuse they have encouragement. The style of HB and legislation should have responsibility as let's face it most here would know how to make profit from other naive LL's with ease, and be legal.
At least the likes of this site can attempt to rebalance things some, LAW your knowledge and precise info is excellent for that.

[Fyldeboy]

Are we sure a tenancy has been created?

I accept she has moved in, but no rent has been paid, there has been no consideration.

Am I missing something?

[LAW]

You are going to have difficulty to say that there is no tenancy see street -v- mountford even with the rent not being paid. All the elements are there and there was an intention to create legal relations.

[Darren H]

Thank you all for the info you have provided and I'm really annoyed with myself for leaving myself wide open. I have always crossed the T's and dotted the i's with all of my previous tenants and know I should treat it as the business it is. I'm going to get as much in writing from email contact with her and approach her in a profesional manner and ask her to leave even if I don't see the money. She has now paid me £100 and swears she made a bank deposit to the wrong account and her bank are sorting this out. I hope to get her to admit to all of this by email in the hope I may use this as evidence??
In the mean time I'll look into a section 8 and 21 and get the ball rolling.

I'll contact housing benefit and find out if I can???


Cheers All

The Mug